Who perceives the Sasquatch in a biological/anthropological view, such as Jane Goodall? That this is the same as researching a great ape such as Mountain Lowland Gorilla, or an Orangutan. Only this species is thought to exist but not verified.

Who perceives the Sasquatch as an unknown, frightening, monsterish creature?Something that doesn't belong in the family of apes or any other biped, including us.

I view it as an animal. The "biological/anthropological view" you've referred to.

If Sasquatch is of this world...
..then it has to play with the same rules that nature provided every other creature in this world. It has to obey the same laws of physics and biology, which all creatures of this world exist under. imho

When people ask me what I do for fun I tell them I like to sit in the woods in the dark and look for monsters.

It isn't proven either way, and it wouldn't shock me to find out it's really neither but something flesh and blood but still unique. A simple primate wouldnt have avoided us this long

How about a complex primate? :bf:

Complex hell......The way it's been eluding us over the I'd almost bet the animal could solve calculus equations.

We better find him ASAP cuz I need math help.

Well said, I agree.

If it's not of this world, it's not in this world.

If there are those who believe anything to the contrary...then it is time to invite the paranormalists into the forum.;
0

I will accept the truth in this matter, there is no substitute for the truth.

What about during the daylight hours?

Something that I noticed and have noticed in the woods... lately it's becoming common to listen to the wildlife. Birds especially, squirrels, chipmunks, how they give your position away as you pass by them.

Like for instance... today at work. I have been working the eastern slopes of Mt. Adams, right at the timberline, anywhere from 6500 to 7400 feet. As I walked from our fixed plots, one mile apart, I noticed that these animals became very agitated as we were near or passed by them.

When we arrived at the last plot of the day, something ... not saying it was the bigguy, something snapped a couple of branches to the northwest of the us. upwind, so it had our scent and uphill from where we were located.

I put down my work gear and went to where I thought I had heard, and my work partner had heard them snap. But nothing was within 70 yards of where I walked upslope. On two different occasions while working that plot we had heard them snaps, not in the same location. Time was about 1500 hours and temps around 80 + degrees up there.

I have heard plenty of snapping of twigs, branches and other movements while working but always like to keep quiet in my approaches to areas. It's the wildlife that gives my position up.

I have used this trick myself to hunt elk and deer, they give them away as well. But we approached from the south and the sounds the snapped twigs came from the north, also using the wind to it's advantage. It was mentioned in our conversation earlier in the day, that if anything were to come near us, we would be easily located because of the other forest animals.

Always a visitor to the forest, respect them, get my work done and go home.

A couple of times they have gotten close.

Anybody else have this happen? Heard the snapped twigs but unable to locate your company?

mel

I work a lot in the woods and have on numerous occasions have spooked something large ahead of me. Unlike the normal sound of a deer bounding, the sound is like something larger, as it is breaking windfalls and other debris out of it's way. I have hunted a lot of Elk in my day and for being a large animal they are suprisingly quite and agile going through the woods. Anyway, kinda spooky when it surprises you like that. Probably a large sow bear. I know animals definitely use the wind to their advantage as a form of defense.

GC, I believe the Sasquatch is a creature of our world, but it just has never seemed to me that it falls into the same mammal classification as does other North American wildlife such as elk, moose, bear ect. Maybe it's the aboriginal/first nations ancestral beliefs and stories of the Sasquatch. Native Americans (Squamish and peoples of the Bella Coola) seemed to have a different perspective of the Sasquatch as compared to the rest of the native wildlife. I trust some of the ancestral knowledge of the native peoples as they at one time ago were more attuned with our spirit world and nature.
GC, you live in an area with more west coast native culture than I do here in Alberta. What do you think about native folklore concerning the Sasquatch??

Excellent thoughts and questions..

Indian beliefs and a scientific approach do not make good work mates.
If I were to infer that Squatch was a creature with one foot in this world and one foot in another..I would be branded as a paranormalist..and whipped through the streets of Bigfootforums naked! (Please hold the visuals for the sake of the ladies! )
However, to hear this same statement come from native lore does not mean the same thing.Everything in the folklore of every american indian tribe is tied in with spirituality. And it is couched in spiritual terms..they ascribe spiritual factors to their domestic animals, to their prey..to each other. Like a form of grace which measures how close one is with nature.
So it is my belief that when these creatures are referred to as "Fathers of the Forsts"..or the Wildmen..it is more of a commentary on how these creatures are believed to live in harmony with nature..rather then what..or who they are.
That is a very simple response on my part to a very complicated question. I know.

But it is for that reason that one cannot let in indian beliefs about this creature when trying to assess the origins of this creature. The indians were never concerned about its origin. So no thought was given to it, by them.

There will be those who disagree with this. My buddy Bushman would be one for sure. He sets great store by indian legends..and tries to incorporate them into a scientific view of the phenomena.
And while I love the indian legends..I know that I have to take each one with a grain of salt.

Can't think too deeply on my first coffee of the morning!LOL

Homo sapiens are much more adept at being monsters. Sasquatch doesn't hold a candle.

But to break it down to the biological, they're animals IMO, nothing more, nothing less.

The Sasquatch in a biological/anthropological view, such as Jane Goodall would view the Great Ape.

Would not it be great to live among a group of Sasquatch and learn their social habits as Goodall did with the apes. I've watched her stuff on the Discovery Chanel often and have always been in awe of her acomplishments.

I agree......

I'll go with your second choice... wholly UNIQUE !!!
(Batman ! )

Wildernessguy, I day dream about livin' with Sasquatch all the time. The hell with modern civilization I say, I just wanna run around naked in the woods.

If I were gonna' do that, then I'd say to hell with sasquatch. I'd rather be running around with Sandra Bullock!

Ouch! Why does my wife keep hitting me on the back of the head???

I think they're a very rare and unique ape.



I also think they have the capability to be a monster.

But, then, I've seen some bears that I considered true monsters.

Often.

Usually I have the thing somewhat located, but I can't actually see it because of the vegetation. Each time I hear it snapping twigs while moving, I get a new idea of it's location.

Usually I sense that they're moose, but I also know that bears will do that regularly. They're very curious, and will continue moving in an arc around you to stay downwind, but will stay in cover.

Moose usually bolt, then freeze or continue to move on at a slower rate.

I have seen bears do this to me often in the field while working, but always wonder about the ones that I don't see ... sneak'n animals.

You know it was only a couple of years ago what you said was true. However now days it is not true at all.
They have found some new animals like shrimp and other things deep in the oceans that do not follow the rules of life of all of the other animals on the planet at all.
If they have found new things that do not follow the rules of nature in the last couple of years who can say that other life forms are not out there that are even different still ?
Who knows some day Bigfoot may be found and it proved that they do not follow the same rules as every other animals on earth. We will never know until they are found and studied.

Problem with your line of thought micahn..is that these creatures of which you spoke were found in places where technology has only now learned to enter safely.
People have been clambering all over Sasquatches territory for hundreds of years!

Hardly a fitting anology...

I agree it is a flesh and blood animal and most likely primate. I believe it is way more scared of us than we are of them, so it wouldn't fit the monster term very well.

I understand one's need to try and rule out all other possibilities before jumping to the conclusion that hearing stick snaps means a BF is near. What I have heard is not little twigs being stepped on by a hoof or being stepped on period. I am hearing what sounds like a nice sized stick or limb being snapped into pieces. I feel relatively comfortable in ruling out bears or moose. I'm sure a bear could wind up anywhere, but I can't believe it would stay in the same area for so many weeks and snap sticks at me. I haven't seen what is there, but it can throw rocks too.

I just want to refine this slightly....

When GC said:



He is absolutely correct. The only refinement would be to add that we don't fully understand ALL laws of physics and biology.

However, even the wildest theories of physics and biology today do not support that BF could be some paranormal monster not of this world. So it's up to the person supporting that idea to come up with a coherent (even if wild) theory that would support some new physics or biology that could support a paranormal basis.

Just tying up loose ends...

Definitely of this world and following all biological, physical, and scientific principles. That is a pretty safe bet I think. For me, the main value in Native legends and myths is that there are some and quite a few (quite a few legends I mean). If the native people had no legends of bigfoot, it would be pretty hard to argue for their current existence. The native people were certainly experts in wild animals and their behaviors because dinner and life itself depended on it, but their specific beliefs on bigfoot origin and/or behavior might be hard to separate from the spiritual and mythical and therefore wouldn't be of any use to science.

I don't buy all the hocus pocus stuff. This is just a big ape. Nothing more. When it is finally captured or killed by someone that is all it will turn out to be. ~Pushing all of my chips in.~

QUOTE (CrimsonGoblin @ Aug 9 2005, 08:22 PM)
Who perceives the Sasquatch in a biological/anthropological view,
such as Jane Goodall?...

yea some mix of chimp/orang/human,thing just sitting by a tree having a good laugh at us shaved apes...
yea I`m pretty sure GOD has a great sence of humor......

NOT paranormal in any way. Flesh and blood and within the realm of the natural.

DTK

I think science has barely made a dent into the possibilities that lay within "this world".

One night, back in 2002, I was doing my "Black Ninja Night Ops"- style of 'squatchin' down in Walker Co., AL. It was after Labor Day. Around midnight.

I followed an animal trail through the woods heading towards ???, when I came out in a brightly moon-lit clearing. I wasn't using any kinda light so I could see as bright as day......
it was an old cemetary !!
Far removed & long forgotten.......
Just beyond the half acre? graveyard, just in the tree-line, stood an old, delapidated Church !!
I stealthily moved through the overgrown grave-stones & rock-covered graves, towards this eeery structure.
I silently moved around the perimeter.....
Nothin'.
I entered through the open front door.....
Silence.
Head-lamp on....red LED.....
Busted up old building....pews askew & loosely stacked in places.....pot-bellied stove gone, pipe still hangin'.
Podium & altar-area fairly intact.....

That's when I noticed it......

the up-side down cross....
made of scrap wood & hangin' from the front of the podium.......
And on the floor in front of the podium.....
a circle.....

I took all this in while completely motionless...
I switched to White light & moved closer.....

The circle was of completely melted down, black candles....13 of 'em.
Dust & debris on the floor only partially revealed a star-like 'point' drawn within the circle.
I was actually carefull NOT to walk across that area as I moved towards the podium & tore the blasphemous symbol from the pulpit & silently dismantled it.

I turned off my head-lamp....
Dark...Silent.
Roof partially missing....
Moon-light streaming in......
Eyes adjusting.....
.....
I softly whispered the 'LORD'S PRAYER' & turned to leave....

From the front doorway, I peered out across the cemetary....
Brightly bathed in silvery moonlight....
MOVEMENT !! 2 o'clock !!
I dropped to squat back inside the doorway....
White/grey object...
50 yds...moving steadily to 1 o'clock...
6-7 ft. tall....mostly obscured from view by weeds & kudzu.

I go to night-vision......
.....
Nothing but foliage and headstones....
Naked eye...there it is !! 12 o'clock !!!
Open area...odd shape...big ...
tall.... Cylindrical !!??
Night-vision...
NOTHING !!!
???
I moved closer, behind a tree to my left..25 feet.

There it is, but WHAT IS IT ???

I crept into the graveyard....
closer....closer....
30 feet...
....
20 feet...
..waitaminit !!

It's an oddly-shaped FOG BANK !!!
Like a solid COLUMN of SMOKE !!!
Single & solitary...no other patches of fog anywhere around...

I could see it 'swirling' like a vortex....
AMAZING !!!
I pulled out my camera...
Turned off the flash...
Aimed...
???
It was GONE !!!
Without a trace !

I held my position for a few more minutes, then silently crept the mile or so back to camp.

Along the way I thought about all I had seen, and I realized how some people would have attributed Supernatural properties to my experiences that night.
I do not.....just evidence of mis-guided FOOLS & a natural meteorological manifestation...nothing else.
But, this experience,
out of the mouth of a 'Superstitous Romantic',
would have taken on epic, "TWILIGHT ZONE", proportions....

Perception....it's all in how you look at it. :edit: fer speling :doh:

I have got to say, very good story. You ever considered writing? While here I have to agree with most others flesh and blood but, very smart to hide from us like it does. We feel we are inteligent in our enviorment but he is in his. If we ever do get one I am sure there will be alot for us to learn.

Wow. What a beautiful way to describe it!

What do you or others make of tales of native tribes trading with their wild-man nieghbors? To me that would indicate that they - or that particular tribe - considered them to be fellow indians, just larger, hairier indians.

I know I've read that somewhere before - I'll try and dig up the article.

Anyway, I'm voting for flesh and blood north-american primate, which in itself would make it very distinct from all other north american animals. A big smart hairy monkey.

-Ray

I remember reading that, too, Ray....then, all the other tribes rebuked & bannished the Sasquatch Tribe because of their taste for Human flesh.
They had alot of trouble out of the Sasquatch after that !!

After searching BFRO, Bobbie Short's site and a few others, this is the only mention I could find of a native community trading with sasquatch:



Its not much - I may have read it in a book. I'll keep looking.

I'm just wondering if this would be a historical version of the habituation scenario; a group of sasquatch living in close proximity with a native community, which then led to trust-building gifts exchanged between the two groups. I've heard of instances where biggie was known to leave such gifts to be found by people and researchers. Maybe this is what was meant by "trade".

I wonder what kind of items might have been exchanged.

-Ray

Or maybe you just sleep better at night telling yourself that?

Having been a firsthand wittness myself , on more than one occasion , of something other folks call "not of this world" encounters , I truly believe there is sooooo much we dont understand about this world. But , my feelings are , if it happens in this world , it's part of this world.