Long ago I got word out among people I know and work with that I'm interested in SQ and requested that anyone who does not want to call the cops, game warden, research orgs., etc. can contact me and I'm damn happy to talk it over. If nothing else, I'd like to be able to legally access some areas that nobody else is allowed on and do some research my own way. I might have gotten closer to that after a busy week of contacts.

3 things have popped in the last couple of weeks:

1) I just got off the phone with one of my closest friends from the 90's. We don't see each other much anymore due to distance, but out of all the friends I've ever had, I rate his credibility the highest. 101% stand-up guy all the way. His integrity, common sense, reasoning, discernment, and general knowledge about things are far above average.

On the phone tonight, it was revealed that we each had a likely sassy incident long ago, and incredibly, after the countless hours he and I have spent in conversation, neither knew about the other's experience.

In a nutshell, while fishing with two friends (one of whom I also know) in Rains County, TX about 12 years ago, they found a single gigantic print while searching for firewood about midnight on a late summer night. They were guerilla fishing, trespassing on a conservation lake that was rarely frequented by people. The track was found after a rain on a muddy spot between two brushy areas while searching for dry firewood.

What struck me was the size of the track. My friend is what Arch Bunker would call a "gigantic colored guy". His feet are a size 16, and the track was 1 1/2 times as long as his booted foot and twice as wide. 5 toes, clearly defined. Contours on the sole well-defined and track found in a location extremely unsuitable for placement by a impotent, twinkletoed hoaxter putz (if discovery of the track is the goal).

He called the other guys over and they really tripped out when they saw the track. They decided to go home pronto. It was the first time I ever heard him mention being scared stupid by something.

He also noted that from the time they got there, it was uncannily quiet. Not even crickets, totally unlike every other time they had fished there.

I believe it likely that they found a very large track and were under surveillance the entire time they were there. I have also heard the woods go quiet, then come back to life when a SQ is around, and it's unmistakeable.

I gave him contact info for the appropriate research org. and he said he'd call and talk to an investigator.

2) This one is insane. I still await the follow-up contact, but it ranks as one of the wickedest accounts I've ever heard.

One of my clients and pretty good friends has a customer whose father in law is alleged to have been reduced to a neurotic child by a terrifying SQ encounter. I have spoken to the son in law once, but "Pop" is extremely resistant to talk to anyone outside his family. I know who Pop is because he is very accomplished in a mechanical field that I'm very interested in, but I've never dealt with him. His overall reputation as a person is stellar on a bad day.

Pop loved to hunt. To avoid divorce, when he neared early retirement he and wife got some land in Smith County, TX so he could hunt often without all the disruption of taking expeditions all over the place. That satisfied wifey and he hoped to retire in peace.

Last November he was in his very nice north-facing custom deer stand on his land about 1,500 feet from the house when he heard steps coming from the south. Once the steps got about 50' away he barked out a trespassing warning to leave and never come back. He could not see behind him because the stand is mounted on a very large tree.

The steps stopped, then in 4 quick strides the creature appeared just to the side of the tree, slightly forward of it, and spun around and looked right at him. Pop started screaming and this upset the creature, which screamed too and approached the stand and JUMPED UP, trying to reach him or grab the bottom of the stand (15' up to bottom) and pull the whole thing down.

Once he got his wits a little assembled, he went on the defensive and leaned up to donate a .270 round to the animal, but he was so scared that he dropped his gun over the rail, which threw him into a panic. The SQ had already touched the bottom of the stand with two jumps and he felt his life was in extreme danger.

Survival mode kicked in hard and he went for the only weapon he could think of - cans of iced tea! Right as he leaned down to open the cooler and snatch a can of tea, the SQ backed up a few steps and Pop believed the SQ was about to get a running start so it could jump higher and get him out of the tree (I think it's possible that it wanted to keep Pop in sight - the front of the stand was solid and covered with brush for camo - he bent down to open the cooler and the SQ backed up to keep him in view - just a theory).

Pop sprang up and whaled a can of tea as hard as he could at the SQ and nailed it square in the upper face, which made it double over and groan loudly, hands over face. It seemed dizzy and surprised. Then Pop poured the ice and water from the cooler on it, and that wigged it out in grand fashion. Just as he followed by throwing the cooler at it (missed) too, it tore off to a nearby treeline by the creek and watched him through a crook in a tree, rocking side-to-side.

Right then Pop was just about bowled over by the realization that he had his Colt 1911 with him in his backpack. He dug the gun out of the bottom of the bag, aimed at the creature's head and fired. Nothing happened - he didn't have one up the snout. So he then racked the slide and right then the thing took off into the brush to the north and crossed the creek shortly after being out of site. He got off one shot and is certain he missed by a wide margin.

Pop waited a short while and dismounted the stand to return home. He was white as a sheet and crying when he got there, and it was the first time in 32 years his wife had seen him cry, or even noticeably scared. Since then he will not hunt, will not penetrate the treeline around the house, and will not even leave the patio after sunset.

Here's the kicker - a couple of weeks ago Pop's truck broke down on the thickly wooded private dirt road leading from the FM to the house. He was stranded in the middle of a sunny afternoon about 700 feet from the house. Instead of walking home, he shut himself in the truck and kept calling people on his cell phone until he found someone to come and get him for the 20 second car ride to the house!

His son in law received a hysterical voice mail message of Pop, sobbing, begging for him to come help, so the guy had to drive all the way from Nacadoches to give a hardened combat veteran and lifelong adventurous outdoorsman a very short ride from the front yard to the front door. And Pop had a .44 magnum Colt Python on him, which he now always has with him.

There were also some items missing from the site, but I've not gotten enough of a detailed account of that yet. It's my understanding that the rifle and can of tea are unaccounted for, but I'll clear that up on the follow up contact that is to occur Monday (I badly hope). There have been some other curious incidents, but nothing like terror in the tree stand.

Hopefully I can gain access to the land. The family is urging him to at least talk to someone who knows about these animals. If I can gain an inroad, I'll be headed out there soon, since it's very close to home.

Blue Oyster Cult is playing Tyler on the 19th, so maybe I can see Bigfoot and Godzilla on the same day.

3) This one is pretty funky, but hardly a surprise when you stop and think about it.

One of my buddies/clients has a brother who is a criminal defense attorney specializing in California marijuana cultivation cases. He defends growers in what one could call both the SQ and the Chief Smoke 'em Up Reefer capital of the USA - northern California. Over the years he has attained a great amount of trust in a very tightly knit underground subculture.

It is very likely that nobody, and I mean NOBODY spends more time in the desolate wilderness than these greenthumbs. They will spend months with grows, building crude shacks to stay in until harvest. Some of the watchers are poor Mexican laborers, but many are people with degrees in horticulture who want to make a lot of illegal money.

And, out of all the people who may encounter SQ, I can't think of a group that would be less eager to go chase down Johnny Law (or anyone else) and point out where the monkeys roam.

Keep in mind that these are not raggedy old hippies in Grateful Dead shirts growing a couple of lids out in the woods. This is dozens or hundreds of plants at a pound a plant and $3-4K a pound. Big business, sophisticated techniques, ultra-high stakes both financially and personally. While Mexican cartels have a hand in the trade, the people claiming these occurrences are all solo growers or work with small groups of friends.

That is exactly what makes this so interesting. These people are unique among those allegedly encountering SQ because 1) they can't report it in any detail, and 2) they often are not able to leave the area without suffering great loss. Legal or not, they are at work, they make real good money, and it takes a lot to run someone off a half-million dollar grow that they have been tending to for months. 3) Most sightings involve the SQ approaching humans on SQ's terms either on the humans' turf or the fringe of SQ turf. In these cases, we have people penetrating deep into wilderness where very few roam and setting up camp right in the heart of SQ's domain.

The attorney has been interested in SQ ever since seeing an In Search Of episode in the '70's. Eventually a client told him about freakiness in the woods and mountains, and it grew from there via repeated inquiries and word of mouth. There are tons of growers, and many have gotten busted.

The growers, like they always have and always will, work all over CA and other states, but all the “Emerald Triangle� counties of Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity starts a swath running north to Del Norte, Siskiyou, Klamath, Six Rivers, Salmon-Trinity, etc have been the names repeated again and again in the accounts.

Basically, over the last 20 years there have been hundreds of reports of growers being terrorized by big ol' stinky monkeys that sometimes are nothing but mellow, other times foul tempered. Some have been reported (sans marijuana) to the organizations we know and love, but the vast majority are known to very few outside the groups.

Every few months the atty comes to Dallas to see his family and I fished with them for hours after Easter. The guy had me alternating between rapt attention and side-splitting laughter the whole day and I finally got to have the detailed conversation I've been awaiting. The cat and mouse games waged between the growers and monkeys is fascinating, and it got to where some growers were figuring SQ losses in their financial projections while planning grows.

Here's a random spew of things we talked about. Much of it is nothing remarkable:

- The longer you stay in an area (again, we're talking months here), the more annoyed and devious they become.

- The older and larger they are, the more they avoid being seen or leaving sign. That's hardly astonishing. But occasionally they show themselves openly seemingly without worry, too.

- In what might be the most butt-clenching story I've ever heard, one mountain-biking grower was followed on a moderately rugged trail by a very large male for SEVEN MILES, Plain sight, right behind him at arms length the whole time. It could have easily snatched him, but did not. It escorted him from the area. It never made a sound during the 40 minute trip.

- ATV believed picked up, carried a short distance, and thrown in shallow gorge.

- A hilarious account of coitus interruptus sasquatchus in which two hippies enthusiastically making the beast with two backs had their grow shack toppled upon their nekkid, thrusting selves by the beast with one back, with another nearby, late at night. Hardcore panic ensued. They believe that the smell of food plus loud sexual activity brings 'em in close. That sure seems to put a damper on one's fun in the woods.

- Lots of plants damaged and, yes, pillaged too. Other animals certainly responsible for some of that, but SQ observed numerous times eating buds from the plants. I have no idea what the nutritional value of cannabis buds are, nor what the psychoactive properties of orally ingesting unheated cannabinoids are. The thought of SQ partaking for nonfood reasons is interesting. I know that there are giraffes that get crocked on fermented fruit at the same place every year and they really enjoy it, so why not SQ? Far out, man.

- Several grows with six-figure value abandoned due to terror. Replacements fled too, as did their replacements.

- A couple of encounters with more than 3 animals, and an extended observation of a pair lasting over an hour.

- Front leg of a large deer freshly ripped from the body found, but no other sign of the deer or a kill.

- Popcorn brings them in. I think the sound may be a factor too, not just the smell.

- One grower, a lifelong naturalist and outdoorsman, spoke in detail about how they learn your habits over time and realize what in important to the intruders. He felt they came to know how important the plants were by watching the people tend to them, and often the SQ would destroy the crops and (usually meager) equipment deliberately to thwart the intruders. A few small grow patches had tree breaks all around them as if the SQ claimed the land.

- In general, they are not dangerous and rarely aggressive, but when trouble occurs, it's the males that do it. Females stay in the background and are shorter and stockier than males (higher body fat % like humans?). Aggression seems to rise directly with temperature (same for humans).

- New moon and full moon show the most activity.

- There are reports of undocumented immigrants working for the cartels having experiences too, though. That must freak them out right finely, since they are probably much less likely to be aware of SQ, and as we well know, SQ can kick a chupacabra's butt anyday. I'd hate to see one of those things without any historical background on it in my head. Shake ya to the core.

- Police officers working in eradication efforts have, when they are not busy accidently starting huge forest fires while performing their duties, encountered SQ both on the ground and from the air. Most encounters were on the ground during early morning raids.

- A man playing an acoustic guitar by a creek looked up to see a SQ intently watching him from across the creek. When he immediately quit playing, the SQ tilted its head like a dog (could have been a result of eye contact). They stared at each other in a nonthreating encounter, then he bopped all six strings pretty hard to make a harsh, loud sound unlike the music he was playing before. The SQ bolted "like Superman". Subsequent regular attempts to lure a SQ to the same spot with the same music produced no results. Disappointing, as I theorize an acoustic guitar could be a fearsome tool to lure a SQ to your area.

- Some of the growers despised the animals, some liked them, some were indifferent (amazing). The determining factor seems to mostly be the damage they did to the grows. Many were actually reverent and respectful towards them, which is great. The more mindful people were of the opinion that aggression was returned, and if you were cool with them, they would be cool with you.

- When tight groups of growers have "harvest parties" in the fall, SQ is an increasingly hot topic. Most of the people who have spent a lot of time in the No. Cal. wilderness have at least heard strange things, but there are many who have logged 10 years + in the same areas without coming across a shread of anything.

In one instance last year, a client offered to take him to a site where activity was very hot, but as an officer of the court he wisely decided his association with the State Bar was more important than woods apes. Being found in a MJ field with a convicted felon = one life down the crapper, mate.

We talked for hours and I could write much more, but I think you get the idea. My time with the gentleman (the atty), plus much interaction over time with his brother and the people who raised both of them has revealed not a single red flag with the credibility issue.

Either way, it's something interesting to consider. I'm trying like bloody hell to get some first hand accounts, but I have no direct control over whether that happens, and if it does, it's gonna take a while. Might make a good book, though. I'd call it Reefer Monkey Madness.

Yeeeeesh, this thing got long. Sorry about the rambling post.

a-freakin-mazing man!

imagine that, stoned bigfoots howling at th moon.

ah, and think bout this, california aint th only place th deep woods growing of certain plants happens.

louisiana, texas, arkansas, oklahoma too.

its out there man, i know its out there. i seen it. here , take a hit off this bong, you may see it too.

too bad this segment of th sightings will most likely never be reported. like ya say, gotta be some fascinating stories.

i particularly like th guitar one.

cheers!
me or somebody like me
hey lOOK LOOK< three toes!!

Heh. That's a great one.

I was camping with some friends in B.C. at Birkenhead lake three years ago. We were on a hike, and at some point three people went off bushwhacking, and two of us (me and another) went back to camp. Anyway, the three bushwhackers found a m.j. plantation off in the woods.
Actually could have been dangerous.. a lot of plantations are booby trapped, and they could have gotten hurt.

No SQ sightings though.

-robo

That second one really gave me the shivers.
I wonder why it went after him, most accounts they leave or just watch. Maybe in the way he screamed inadvertently triggered the aggressive response?
After being gone after like that i would probably be a little more leery too! Quite obviously what happened was traumatic for him to react that way at the thought of walking home.

Cool reports, Maggie!

It's too bad that fellow wasn't a better shot, he could have dropped that creature, and probably solved the mystery.

Woo Hoo! What a read! The dropping of the gun made me think of "Harry and the Henderson's", what would have happened if the BF picked the gun up and pointed it juuussst right...?

MonkeyMan:

Thanks for the reports.

Posts like yours are the reason I check this Forum everyday. Makes me wish I lived in N. California.... for the SQ, not the MJ!

Thanks for the amazing stories!

Weed is BC's major export crop - I wonder if there is a wealth of such tales among the growers around here...

-Ray

It may have been long, but Hey (in Wayne Cambell voice) a most excellent post my friend

Yeah, the second one raised my eyebrows 15 feet up and the animal COULDNT reach it ??? Must have been a small juvi. If you can get the man to open up, get him to make a sketch of the face, if nothing else !!!

Guitars, music in general are a good lure. The softer, gentle music brings them in, they dont go for Aerosmith or the Who , unfortunatly. Soft Indian Flute music works wonders

> california aint th only place th deep woods growing of certain plants happens. louisiana, texas, arkansas, oklahoma too.

Absolutely. Cannabis is probably the #1 cash crop in the USA. However, I've done a little research in the last few days and it seems that growers in the PNW have a close-knit community that is not found anywhere else in the USA. The closest would be Tennessee and Kentucky, and there's no shortage of monkeys there either, methinks.

> Yeah, the second one raised my eyebrows 15 feet up and the animal COULDNT reach it ??? Must have been a small juvi.

That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out with my 6'5" frame. I'm somewhat athletic and I sure as hell can't come close to toching the 15' mark even with a running start. I'm putting together a paradigm to try and figger it out.

> If you can get the man to open up, get him to make a sketch of the face, if nothing else !!!

That was one of the first things I asked. Apparently he's great with technical drafting, but freehand with humaniods it's stick figure city. More info on phys characteristics to come. I'd like a little more info before I bother to write it out.

> Weed is BC's major export crop - I wonder if there is a wealth of such tales among the growers around here

That's another thing I wondered. Apparently the grows move indoors as you move north. Still, there are more than enough using real sunlight to surely account for some reports. I think the penalties are much less severe in Canada, so maybe people will be more open about it.

> The dropping of the gun made me think of "Harry and the Henderson's",

I really oughta watch that one of these days.

Out of all that info, the thing with the mountain biker gives me the the most chills. Vulnerability at its highest, I'd say. Anything that messes with me while I'm in a tree stand is in big trouble, but the bike thing could get ugly on you real quickly. I'd say the biker is lucky the Texas tree stand molester was not the monkey he drew that day, since he'd probably not care for a mountain bike sticking out of his butt.

In compareing SQs to human abilities, keep in mind, they are built differently, with greater ability than a human in the same tasks. They can jump higher vertically than a human. A 15 foot standing jump should be like us jumping up to a countertop, not hard at all. One report from Ohio that sticks out in mind, an 8 footer made a 30 foot bluff with a jump and one mid-rise push with one foot (jumped from ground, hit the middle with one foot, reached the top) in a split second.
So, for one to NOT be able to reach a treestand at 15 feet ... makes me think the animal was either a) injured b)deformed c) very small d)not being aggressive, but trying to drive the human away without conflict.

Although the ice water throwing gave me a good laugh

Hey Rob.

"Did the animal appear fit" is the first thing listed on my follow-up questions for Monday (along with the obvious ones). From the info I have about the way it exited the scene, it sounded very fit. On the other hand, I nurse some old leg injuries and get along fine and can manage a hearty burst of speed if sufficiently motivated.

I've considered that the believed ankle-forward nature of the foot plus the apparent inclination of SQ not to extend the knee joint the way we do (protect knee from excessive weight > force??) might hamper the ability to jump straight up. Momentum might be more important to a leaping SQ than a human athlete. I'd love to watch one do the hop, skip, and jump competition I foggily remember from childhood.

Hopefully I'll get a good follow up contact and some access to the area. If all works out perfectly, I'll eventually steer this fellow to my local research group. He's not very receptive at the moment, the poor fellow. I really feel bad for him. He's still trying to come to terms with the whole thing, I'd imagine. I'm gonna try to impress upon him, for starters, that it's just an animal and work it from there. I know I'll be staring at the phone like a lovesick teenage punk kid tonight.

I can think of one other account where a rifle was reported taken. Read it a long time ago and remember the owner hoping sassy would have an "operational misadventure" with the weapon and blow its own melon off. Can't recall anything else about it, think it might be an oldie report from Green. Seeing a SQ experience the surprise of firing a .270, assuming nobody got hurt, would be potentially hilarious. Animal Planet would love that one.

And the Rains Co. track find is really cool, because it comes from a guy that needs no consideration regarding credibility.

There are not many archived reports from Rains/Wood Counties (legendary bass factory Lake Fork, Sabine River basin 1 hour east of Dallas) so I'm glad to see that one. It seems to be the western boundary of activity, but there have been sightings just west of there (Lake Tawakoni) too.

Lots of anglers have heard strange things on the lake at night, but there have been few tantilizing incidents to read. I've spent hundreds of hours in a boat lone wolf night fishing all over the lake and have heard some strange moans, but they were too faint and brief to exclude things like the abundant cattle in the area.

Ditto that!

So EB's theory works?

Great post MM.. Great stories and great info...

Reminds me of a story my sister (an archaeologist) told me about when she worked for the Forest Service in CA... She and another arky were out surveying in the deep woods one day and they came across a mary jane planting. They stood there for a moment marking the map coordinates of the site and suddenly found themselves surrounded by Federal Agents in ghillie suits... I guess it was an interesting experience..

She had her own BF experience (which somehow ended up on the BFRO site) when something screamed at her and another arky on another survey...

I only had time to scan this thread quickly... so I will only say this...

I don't agree that we should arm Sasquatch.

That sounds really dangerous.

RB. Are you...uh...feeling OK? Everything all right? Still taking your meds?

reading titus' post reminds me of th time when my cousin by marriage, at th time a texas department of public safety(we say highway patrol) drug division operative came to th store of my uncle with nice clear shots of my uncle(his father in law) and my dad totin out watermelons from a clearcut that they had planted there. th agents had had th area under observation from th ground and from a plane with some kind of humongous camera. nice shots of both of em, easily recognizable.

the next year in that same area, while out pickin watermelons again that they had planted they came across a patch. they uprooted 126 pound of plants about a foot tall and tied em into bunches and LOADED em into th back of his pickup and brought em home and tossed em all out in a pile in th yard and THEN called th sheriff.

they were asked not to do that again, lol.

i often wondered if th reason th sherrif didnt want em to ever pull up more plants was cause HE may have been involved with th growing and selling of it and didnt want HIS patches raided by redneck farmers.

who knows, it was east texas.

the entire sherrifs department of th next county south got busted for selling dope and torturing prisoners and all kinds of crazy stuff about that same time.

they made a not very good movie about it all called "terror on hy 59" i think it was. ricky shroeder starred.

that was th cops i was used to and grew up around. we toted guns as mostly protection from THEM, cause we knew for years they was a wacked out thievin, dopesellin, murderin, torturing bunch of animals.

of course that had nothing to do with bigfoot.

perhaps i should be beaten?
<visions of tall blonde dominatrix in red leather thighhighs with whips and mask>
omg

Yeah...that's what I got out of it too RB.

And arming a stoned sasquatch is even worse!

No man...

I'm feeling kinda funny...

shaman sent me some brownies...

Wooooo Hooooo !!!!

...say, are you going to finish that hot dog?...

yep.....

Uhhh...read this twice now and still don't get it. (always gotta be that one guy you have to explain it to.)

I believe we may have stumbled on a new bait for the Sassie bait traps. Might be able to catch one if we get him to eat some of RB's brownies. Very cool reports MM.

Quickly, cause I'm tired. What a pity things like staying alive and paying the bills have to interfere with my monkey fun.

Had a discussion with "Pop's" S in L yesterday evening. Went well, got some detail added. Random spew:

- Color was very dark brown with an apparent red sheen in spots. Size was larger than a man, but not ungodly. He's unable to estimate the exact height, but says more than 6' and probably well short of 8'. Sounds kinda like a 7 to me. Build was stout, athletic, and relatively proportionate.

- Pop's standard for what a SQ looks like comes from the $6M man stuff in the '70's. He said his monkey was much neater, not shaggy and disheveled like the Andre the Giant version. Hair was a few inches long over most of the body, but longer on the undersides of the upper arms, around the groin, and lower legs.

- Eyes were "dark and angry". Nose/ears not prominent. Neck was like a huge offensive lineman - very short. Teeth were yellow and blocky.

- The animal appeared not aged or disabled. Very agile and vigorous, but he believes it was unable to vertically leap from a still or near-still stance as well as someone staring at one might fear.

- Rifle and tea are gone. Rifle is bolt-action with chamber loaded, safety off. No evidence of tampering with the stand, and nobody has been back there with the exception of the S in L retrieving what was left of the gear.

- It had human-type nails and long thumbs.

- Believes it to be male. No breasts seen, but no "hose" either.

- He believes it knows what a gun pointed at it means. He knows it does not care for icy showers at all.

- It made no effort to follow him home, as far as he knows.

- Visibility and conditions were fine. Typical cool E. TX autumn morning.

- Neighbors a couple miles up the creek have some dogs that occasionally act very strangely - alarmed. They've noticed nothing else unusual.

- All involved are aware that I'm posting info about this, of course leaving out the names and exact locations.

- His state of alarm regarding this is improving. He's very embarassed about his reactions during and after the incident. Hope for a meeting, then my access to the land, then researchers' access to the land remains. I know this guy wants to learn more about what is/was on his land, but he's still in a state of emotional upheaval. He sounds like the kind of guy who can deal with it in time. I'm a monkey fan, and a peaceful retirement fan, and I hate to see the two clash.

Seeing double, gotta go to sleep. More soon.

Outstanding follow up MM !!!

When jim is right... he's right, all right!

Good job Monk!

Very interesting MonkeyMan!! That was a very good report. You done a very good job!!...

Thanks for the update MM, those details are interesting. This sounds like one heck of an interesting report to be involved with.

I feel sorry for Pop. Just seeing one made me wet my pants. I can't imagine one trying to grab my stand.

I'm with you Jaylee, thats exactly what I was thinking. That poor guy, that would be utterly terrifying. I would probably have fainted and been carried off.

> I'm with you Jaylee, thats exactly what I was thinking. That poor guy, that would be utterly terrifying. I would probably have fainted and been carried off.

Ain't that the truth. He's lucky he didn't tumble from the stand. That could have been intrepreted as an attack, and then....who knows? He reports feeling faint once the incident petered out and was numb in the face and arms - the guy was about to OD on adrenalin, shock and fear.

From the info I have, I'm trying to filter out the terror of his account to try and consider how aggressive the animal actually was. To the observer, it had to have appeared 100% homocidal, and that's that. But in reality.....hey, my brother screamed at me and tried to swat me out of a tree once, and I didn't have any cans of tea. I was annoyed, but not in danger.

Possibly, being surprised by a similar-sized male humanoid in a superior position simply freaked out the SQ. Pop said he was running in ultra-stealth mode because it was the end of the productive time to hunt (just after sunrise), so the SQ was likely just as surprised as Pop was - first it hears a stern and unfriendly vocal warning right in front of it, then it finds a guy in a tree. A threat from the trees sure would give me the willies worse than one at eye level.

And in terms of vertical leap, I'm far from anything close to a biometric analysis of the issue , but even for a SQ as tall as 8', a reach to just 15' in a vertical leap sounds about right. I don't think SQ are built to be ninja leapers.

As I assemble more info, I'll update as I can. Finally got a good line of communication open with the ganja lawyer guy. He wants to hit the woods with me next time he's down here. He knows so much about cultivation in CA that he's pretty much afraid to even be seen in the woods there. He's squeaky-clean straight libertarian that wants to stay outta trouble.

This is my best one for a while so far thanks MM
Great work. !!! Keep em long !!
I would agree there are some glitches on the guy on the treestand's experience but you know, if you are freaked out of your mind when you have the observation, I doubt accuracy or recall are at the top of the list
regarding verfication. If your brain is on overload and your knees buckle and.... you lose it upstairs you are just doing good to be breathing and not pass out. Who knows whats in the mind of boogers looking at camo guys in treestands... great great stuff.

Just a thought .But wondering if Pops might have thought it acted that way because it percieved him as a threat to its own hunting.?

> I would agree there are some glitches on the guy on the treestand's experience but you know, if you are freaked out of your mind when you have the observation, I doubt accuracy or recall are at the top of the list
regarding verfication.

Yup. But, his recall is seems pretty good. The encounter is estimated to have lasted less than one minute and he noticed a lot. But again, I have yet to speak to Pop, therefore:

The most horrifying part of this whole thing is the middleman! Life experience and knowledge of social psych has taught me a thing or two about that. But, a person I have a very high opinion of says the whole damn bunch of 'em are solid as granite, and the son-in-law is a pleasure to talk with.

I've spent more time plotting/acting to get a one-on-one (struggling to not scare the guy off with enthusiasm) While talking to the gentleman, I'm keeping a real even keel like we're talking about catching catfish, while in reality I'm about to have a stroke. I've never dealt with a stranger in such detail with repeated interviews in regards to BF, so I'm kinda reacting to things as they happen. Not different from standard psychological clinical interviews (that's what I'm 'posta be doing for a living), though. I was always especially interested in malingering, so SQ research might be right up my alley.

1) I wish to bloody hell I were an exceptionally wealthy man. Not for the reasons most do - I think money is vastly overrated - but to have the time and resources to get into the bush for a long time and have lots of wonderful experiences, SQ or not.
2) I wish seeing an ape in the woods, something far from remarkable on this planet, was not capable of making people so paranoid. I mean....arrrrgh. I've never chased a woman with the vigor that I've run after this plum shook up old hunter man.

> If your brain is on overload and your knees buckle and.... you lose it upstairs you are just doing good to be breathing and not pass out. Who knows whats in the mind of boogers looking at camo guys in treestands... great great stuff.

Yep again. I always had an interest in reactions to extreme stress and did a ton of reading on it in college. Reactions vary between individuals and even within individuals across varying situations. In a nutshell, people do all kinds of funky stuff when the dung hits the fan, and the more removed from accepted experience the incident is, the harder it hits.

Some people, no matter how alarmed they become, remember things extremely well. Others blank out like Anna Nicole on Jeopardy!. Pop didn't too too badly, but not too well either, and therein lies most of the problem, IMO. Once he sorts that out, the monkey will be a lesser matter. *knock on wood*

I hope Craig and I find ourselves on a road trip to the Tyler area soon.

Me too!

So MonkeyMan, does this mean you are a TBRer?

If not...

Maybe he should be...

> So MonkeyMan, does this mean you are a TBRer?

After much consideration, it looks like that's where my association in the formal monkey world is leading, should they find me tolerable. Craig and I live almost within walking distance of one another, and I can't find a single thing about the organization that turns me off. They look like the real deal.

Problem is, I have to align my non-SQ related existence to withstand the burden of dealing with this in a serious manner. When I get into something, I get into it hard and at the very least I need some good boots and snake leggings (and a host of other things) before I take the plunge. Until then, whenever I'm out in the sticks, I keep my eyes open and walk as many creeks as I can.

The biggest obstacle to everything I do is an epileptic dog that requires near-constant supervision. She's lucky she's such a good dog much of the time.

I think I'm getting closer to accessing the property. The fact that I want to bring my longtime right hand woods-man too was troubling to them, but they realize that given the nature of the encounter, a buddy is a capital idea. The paranoia around this still astounds me.

Update on Tyler, TX sighting claim:

I got to spend a part of an afternoon there after much diplomatic work. Found no sign in the short time I was there. The goal was to sit down and get to know the people involved, and that went pretty well.

Shortly thereafter, though, things went bad. Word about the event eventually got out and they had some problems with people trespassing. I got blamed for the whole thing (absolutely not true), and after the middleman who brought this to my attention went to see them to vouch for my integrity (I've known the fellow for many years), they apologized and all seemed on the right track. The loose lipped one turned out to be a teenaged relative.

Unfortunately, they declined to let people on the property any more, at least partially due to fears of researchers publicizing the location, and even worse, intentionally attracting the animals to the area. They want nothing to do with the critter and were kind of dismayed that, despite being armed, I had no intention of shooting it in anything but the most grave circumstances. BUMMER!

Pop wants to move. He can't be happy in the location anymore, but being intent on living in a wooded area with deer, there's not any place I could recommend to him that I can say with confidence is monkey-free. I really feel bad for the guy, having his retirement hosed in such an unexpected manner. I mean....DAMN!

I gave him contact info for Craig at TexBF if he wants to open up someday, but I'm through with his squirrely butt. Other things beckon.

I have heard no reports since of activity in the immediate area and found nothing of note at the site. The missing articles never turned up, but they were never sought. Still, I have no doubt at all that a breeding population of Skookums exists, and has existed in East Texas for a long, long time. I am of the opinion that Pop is accurately recounting what he experienced that day. No signs of malingering present.

As for the cannabis growers, I have a ton of notes on that one. Easily enough material to write a book, and that's after purging the silly stuff from the pile. One guy, a brilliant naturalist that I have frequent contact with, has a wealth of information and appears very credible. He spent a total of 4 years in the wild parts of Mendocino Co. growing, and after a short time came to regard the monkeys as a normal part of the landscape. Unfortunately, he jumped bail and moved to Switzerland so he could grow and breed in peace, and earns an astonishingly good living making seeds. I didn't even know such an industry existed. Better than tarring roofs, that's for sure.

After the summer the lawyer man will be in town and we'll get together. It's always a pleasure talking BF with him. Pity that so many of those witnesses are concerned with avoiding prison terms, leaving little room for monkey talk.

If I come up with any more info, I'll be sure to (eventually) post it. How badly I wish that could have been me in the tree stand. I'm not at all a nervous person, and I'm not known for dropping rifles during trying times. <sigh>

Gosh MM, thanks for the follow up on this. I've been wondering how Pop was fairing these days. Seems like his retirement years are screwed. I can't imagine going through what he did, but it's good to know that maybe they can't jump very well. I think I'm going to be raising the height of my deer stand this year! Say about 20 feet up.

Sure hope sassy doesn't figure out how to shoot the gun.

I read this thread for the first time tonite and all I can say is:

Its BIZARRE!!!!

Hey MonkeyMan those were about the most jaw-dropping, keep you on the edge of your seat postings I have read.....

Thanks Man!

Thanks for the great posts, monkeyman. What gets me is that these growers must know how valuable a bigfoot body would be, much more so than their crop. How come they are not trying to bag a specimen ?

Hey Monk, thanks for the totally awesome Texas report and followup. You are indeed a researcher's researcher. As for Craig Woolheater, he's the best. I've met him personally twice and done a lot of E-mail correspondence with him, and they just don't come any finer than Craig. I know you and Craig are and will be a tremendous help to each other in your field research here in Texas. I know Craig lives in the Dallas area in north Texas, on the edge of BF country. TRBC does an outstanding job in every respect.

Some growers probably have foresworn carrying firearms, since being in possession of one when busted on a drug charge doubles or triples the potential penalty.

Q: What does Bigfoot eat when he gets "the munchies"?

A: More Buds!

This account is on the GCBRO if I'm not mistaken.... Its one of my favorites.


Belle

hi ella thats a great bigfoot reply. its great to see you on the bigfoot forums again. trust me you will see alot texas sightings etc posted here. thanks bill green

hello bill.

ella's post there is from almost two years ago. the thread was bumped up to the top.

i am certain she will not be back to this forum as she was confronted with riding the fence on the whole mary green/jan coy fiasco.

she was posting on another forum up until fairly recently and she was pretty vocal about how horrible the people here in this forum are.

a good day to you sir and happy squatching.

Have just recently discovered this thread in the course of browsing the archives; and have felt unable to resist “bumping it up”. All of it, interesting – but the part concerning Northern California, of MonkeyMan’s initiating-the-thread post of 3rd May 2003, has struck me as the single most fascinating thing which I have yet come across on BFF – which is saying a great deal. (There is perhaps also some borderline relevance to the current thread “Sad, But potential?” on “General Discussion”.)

This material has fulfilled something which I had wondered about off and on, since shortly after discovering BFF – and has done so beyond my most colourful imaginings. No offence meant anywhere here, to MonkeyMan; but, assuming that his informant was not lying, or had not credulously bought into tall tales from his clients – this remote scene would really seem to be (or at least, to have been half a dozen years ago) “where it’s happening”, and where, given the time to spend there, and the opportunity, the mystery might most likely be uncovered. It would seem an even better prospect than the British Columbia / south-east Alaska coast, quite often put forward as a likely superlative area for searching. Admittedly all the material is anecdotal, with no hard evidence “on the table” – but as has been observed a million times, thus it is with the enormous majority of everything to do with this subject.

The whole business of Bigfoot often seems to be one of the most frustrating issues known to mankind – with yet another highly frustrating twist to it here. In the nature of this entire “remote Northern California” situation, the interacting humans are not in a position to reveal much about their findings, even should they wish to; and would be very reluctant to accept incursions into their domain, by outsiders. It is tempting to muse – as ever, given one’s having a great abundance of both funds and time – on the possibility of a researcher getting a foothold here: as it were, before contemplating habituating the sasquatches, setting about habituating the pot growers. Going by the account here, these characters seem on the whole not to be homicidal maniacs; but folk of a relatively regular and normal kind, who just happen to be earning their living by something illegal. One wonders what chance there might be, of someone progressively taking up residence in the area – gaining the growers’ trust, and convincing them over time, of one’s having no interest in curbing their activities or setting authority on to them; one’s interest being solely in the large hairy neighbours. Such a course of action would be fraught with difficulties; and would probably require some lucky breaks, to succeed -- but need it necessarily be outright impossible? A bit more “lottery-winning dream-fodder”, anyway.