As some of you have read, I have just come back fromt he UnConvention in London, where we have been 'warned' by Kal Korff to expect a book with smoking gun evidence that the PGF film was a hoax.

The book has been written by author Greg Long, with a forward and afterward by Kal K Korff - the book is to be called either '60 seconds at Bluf Creek' or 'The Making of Bigfoot' - is is most likely to be the second of these two titles.

The book is to be launched by way of a press conferencein October, ready for christmas.


Anyway, Korff claims that there are some 40 witnesses who have made statements, together with a contract between Patterson and some film company to film a hoax, as well as a law suit with Patterson as the defendant for not keeping to his end of the deal.


Now, I think we should get ready, and have a press release ready to be issued with counter-arguments - the trouble is that we need to work out what is in the book.

In theory, if Korff has deposed these witnesses as he claims, then there statements should be a matter of public record, and I would guess that the witnesses are based in the yakima or willow creek areas.

Also, there should be a record of a law suit being filed against Patterson somewhere.

If anyone is up for some serious digging and research, then let me know.

Well, I guess we'll see. Without knowing anything about the claims, it would seem to me that if 40 people could be gathered to debunk the film, along with a contract with a film company, someone would have come forward before now. This is my basic problem with all conspiarcy theories. Once you get to more than about half a dozen people involved, I think the consipracy becomes unmanageable - people like to talk, especially when they know something you don't.

In any event, and even though I belive the PG film to be one of the basic reasons to accept the existence of these animals, even the loss of PG would not be the end of the world. We still have footprints and sightings and other forms of evidence. The shear mass of stuff we have on these things would survive the loss of any one piece of evidence, even one as important as PG.

Too bad it won't be out in time for the Willow Creek Symposium...

P.S. I'm bumping this over to the Media section.

Kal K. Korff?? I could never trust a dude with that many K's in his name...

Ha! No doubt...

Korff says that his entire family has the initials KKK as something of a family tradition.

What... but... no!!! no, no, no No!!?

Hmmm... PG Film a fake? Guess we'll see...

I've almost been a little afraid to take the PG film too seriously. If it IS (by chance) proven to be a hoax, a lot of pre-conceived notions about BF will be out the window.

While I think it's a fascinating piece of footage (and I really, really hope it's NOT a phoney) it could actually have hurt BF research by putting pre-conceived notions in the minds of BF seekers about what to expect in the field. I'm not sure that all BF are big lumbering critters like the one depicted in the film. Not all of the witness descriptions fit the critter in the film.

I'll bet that if it is proven a hoax, the Myakka pics will be looked at in a whole new light.

Seems to me, if I was trying to catch a big ol' large-mouthed bass...

This is the sort of lure I would use...

This guy will make a fortune on that book!

I'm just mad I didn't think of it first!

Since when does something have to be true to write it down and offer it up for sale?

We should always be prepared at any time for a key piece of evidence to be discounted. Anything can be proven false and/or be dismissed based on opinion. I think it's more important to keep in perspective the vast quantity of evidence that supports the existence of these creatures, not just the bits and pieces.

That being said, I think this attempt will end up in the same place as Wallace's claims and the 'Bell' story...

It is surprising though that this is just now surfacing after .....well too many years
(I was just a kid when PGF went public).

Honestly..........those that bark the loudest make the most money!

JMHO

Robert

It has to be said that there is far more money to be made in writing a debunking book than a pro-bigfoot book

Like most, I have a lot of faith in the PGF, but not so much that I would be devestated if it were ever proven to be a hoax - there is plenty of good physical evidence.

Yep yep yep.

I agree!!

I bet it is just more of the same....someone who really has no idea about the true evidence of sassy. I don't think they can come up with why there is a bulge in his thighif it is fake! If it is someone wearing a suit there would not be a tendon like bulge on his thigh... .

In fairness to Korff (and this is probably the only times I will utter those words), he says that this book is not debunking bigfoot, only the PGF. He says he beleives there are plenty of undiscovered species out there.

Interestingly, he admits that just after writing a debunking book on UFOs, he was driving home and saw one for himself ! we can only hope that once this book is published, he is hiking through the woods and a sasquatch shows itself in a most dramatic way !

The one debunking statement that would do the most harm to the credibility of the PG film would be one from Patterson's widow. Apparently the authors tried to obtain such a statement from her, but were unsuccessful. (I just read somewhere on this forum that Patterson & his wife were at odds over his BF activity, so she may hold a grudge against him.)

there's no way to prove the PGF is a hoax unless one of the following happens:

A. Someone who made a suit and or wore the suit in the film comes forward and admits it.
B. Gimlin admits it's a hoax (unlikely, but it could happen)
or
C. like RogerK said, if Patterson's widow knew it was a hoax and comes forward and admits it.

Those are really the only ways they could debunk it, take for instince a similar situation: The Surgeon's Photo of the Loch Ness monster. It was the subject of much controversy for years but most people still believed it was real until one of the people involved admitted the hoax and explained how it was done.

I'm still divided on the PGF, there have been times when I really felt it was real, and then there were times when I doubted it, right now I'm divided on it, I really hope that it's the real deal, it may or it may not be, we never know. Even so, the PGF isn't the only piece of evidence that everyone should be concerned about, there's lots of other pieces of evidence out there, some of it is going to be the work of hoaxers some isn't. In the end,

They can kill the PGF but, they can't kill the legend of bigfoot as a whole.

Despite the outcome of all this speculation, the legend WILL live on

Well, I have got a theory. First of all, I would like to say that I am a true believer in the authenticity of the Patterson-Gimlin film as showing a genuine Sasquatch in every sense of the word. That being said, let me venture out on a limb for a moment, and please try to stay out of the way when the limb finally breaks, and I come crashing down, breaking my bum. IF, and I stress IF the Patterson-Gimlin film was faked, then the "suit" would have been fabricated by the cleverness of a brilliant mind(or minds) directing a very good taxidermist. Before I start into this, I would like everyone to remember what the hair of the creature in the film looks like with the sun shining on it. The fluidness and natural flow of the hairline is evident, and has been a major arguing point to the authenticity of the creature in this film being a true Sasquatch. It has been said that this could not have been achieved by a man-made suit. It has also been stated that the technology was not far enough ahead to achieve a believable hoax at this period in time. My theory will start off dealing with this aspect. Then, I will address muscle movement, and finally wrap up with posture and gate issues. My theory: The suit would be fabricated mostly out of a Black Bear skin, the whole body skin, with the front and rear paws and upper frontal areas cut out to facilitate breast, arms, hands, and feet. This would insure a fluid, natural hairline, and would also insure a natural look, the fabricators knowing that this event will be filmed and nitpicked, and percieved authenticity being paramount. The architects of this scenario would also know that the creature would have to have a percieved, very large muscle mass. To achieve this muscle mass and the fluidness of the muscle movement under the skin would be a very large hurdle to cross, and way far beyond the cleverness of those involved, or would it? This problem could have easily been solved by a cleverly thought up taxidermy solution: An inner, first layer body suit sewn of stretch fabric, with water filled leather sacks, sewn, shaped, formed, and sewn into place to achieve the desired effect. Leather sacks have been used down through history to hold water, wine, and other beverages, and this would have been fairly common knowledge to the clever history buff and outdoorsman, and could have easily popped into mind to solve this muscle movement problem. Shaped padding would also be used to bulk the host up. A very good taxidermist would be needed to achieve this, and if they could achieve this, they could achieve the rest of the suit. The entire Black Bear skin and all donor pieces would have to have been treated liberally with a softening agent to ensure a soft, supple skin to prevent wrinkling during movement, and also ensuring a liberal stretch to the skin, for fitting and movement purposes. After preperation, the host(person in suit) would have to be fitted into the skin, standing for an extended period of time as the skin is wrapped and fitted to their body, and over the first-layer body suit containing the leather water bags. When all neccessary trimming has been done, then the entire skin would be sewn together, using small but strong cat gut line, and while on the host. Various donor pieces from other Black Bear skins would be used to fill in any lacking spots, matching them to the main skin as far as color and hairline. Any variances in hair length would be trimmed accordingly and blended. Any bare spots that need attention would have tufts of hair glued and blended in to fill as neccessary, making sure hairline and color match perfectly. The entire suit would actually be sewn together while on the host, not to be removed until the end of rehearsal and filming. The neck of the host would also be wrapped in water filled leather sacks, to bulk up and facilitate the wrapping of the neck of the bear skin, which is large and long. This would also explain why the host had to turn their whole body to look around at the camera man, because the neck would be wrapped with water sacks, and this would have limited head movement. This would have been a very hard area to keep from wrinkling with movement, so that would also add to the reasons for turning the upper body slightly while turning the head. The head of the bear skin would not be used, but the neck would have been taken up and sewed to the top of the host's head, making a cavity for the host's long hair to rest in, and solving the problem of making a smoothly round top of head, which would have been very difficult to achieve without many stitched areas. The sagittal crest, which would be the cavity with the long hair inside, would have been an added bonus, and to the delight of the architects, would make the suit appear even more believable. The face of the host would have been blacked with shoe polish, and loose hair glued on accordingly and blended to ensure an authentic look. The large breast of the host would have had loose hair glued directly to the skin, and the nipples blacked with shoe polish, and would be allowed to hang freely for authentic movement. The hands and feet would be made of black rubber, molded from hand-formed molds, and painted accordingly for a truly authentic look. The molded hands and feet would be tight fitting, and would have been stretched over the hands and feet of the host, after the entire body suit had been sewn on to their body. Paint would have then been used to touch up any inconsistancies, and then covered with small tufts of hair and blended accordingly to continue the fluidness of the hairline. The only large sewn areas would be on the front of the host, and so filming the host in the suit as they were walking away from the cameraman would be neccessary to help further the perception of authenticity by helping to only show the back of the creature, which flows very naturally due to the whole bear skin used. Finally, the suit being complete, the host would no doubt have a very hard time walking, with the weight and awkwardness of the suit, which is no doubt very heavy due to all the water bags, padding, fur, and skin. This would account for the stooped, awkward gate, but a gait that had been practiced over and over again in another location before filiming to ensure a believable appearance. This would also have been one of the "added bonus" situations for the architects, because the strange gait would ultimately add to the arguments of authenticity.

Using this particular theory, there would be no high technology used, only natural materials, clever minds, and a skilled taxidermist. I just wanted to throw this theory out there, it is something that I have thought about in the past, and have always wanted to share. Again, I do believe that Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin did film a real Sasquatch in 1967 at Bluff Creek, but on the slight chance that it was faked, in my mind this scenario or a variation thereof would be the most likely. I would love to hear any thoughts on this, and any added ideas would be welcome.

I have to admit Volsquatch, that's one heck of a theory. But I have doubts if it really would work. And once again it comes back to the argument of, if they took all that time and preparation to put the hoax together, why would they have only gotten a short amount of shaky footage for their efforts?

To be honest, and not to be disrespectful, but I just don't think Roger Patterson was that smart or devious.

But still, it's a neat theory all the same.

I think that this book will be an interesting read. I look forward to locating a copy of it.

yeah I agree, it should be a great read, how many books have been made before devoted entirely to the PGF?

Travis:

The only "book" that I know of, entirely devoted to the subject of the Patterson-Gimlin film, is Daniel Perez's Bigfoot at Bluff Creek.

Out of print, it's really a special edition of his BIGFOOT TIMES newsletter. I managed to find a copy in the local library... very interesting.

Incidently, I have corresponded with Perez, asking him if he was planning on up-dating BaBC for the upcoming Bigfoot Symposium in Willow Creek, and received the following e-mail from him... "will be reprinting Bigfoot At Bluff Creek, with exhaustive bibliography." daniel

Say we go along with what this to be released book that it was a hoax & it had to take alot of work & time to make the costume etc.etc. the real question I have here is was there alot of money made off of the film. Ray Wallace made those wood BF feet to make the fake foot prints but that would be very cheap to do, compared to the Paterson film.

I have read that there wasn't alot of money made off of the film and that Patterson and maybe Gimlin put most of their money into the research of bigfoot after the film was made. If true then they too, believed it was the real deal.....unless somone hoaxed both of them. The dude who told them where to go....can't remember his name.

I just thought I would give this thread a bump just so that I can say 'I told you so' !

Ya know... he did!

This guy had the scoop months before all the brand-x forums...

We are lucky to have you here, Paul...

I found a bit of it the other day.....


The dirt...