Migration ? Options

[Paul1968UK]

Does anyone have any theories on whether Bigfoot does actually migrate, and if so, where, how far and when ?

I have searched and searched the info I have, and can't come up with any real conclusion.

What do you think ? (and why)

[bipto]

Check out this thread:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=150

At least in my neck of the woods (upper Midwest) I think the migrate to get out of the cold! That and i can't imagine what they'd eat here in the winter...

[Streamrunner]

in the Pacific Northwest I saw a reference to them coming down out of the mountains and hanging around shoreline...for seafood. I dont know if there is any accuracy to that but it might make sense.
ha ha some people like snow and some dont
some dogs swim and some dont
so who knows.
On the same count, I hear that there are footprint in the snow in the mountains. Maybe it comes down to location and individuals ?
As far as distance from two points with the same track, I saw a reference but I dont know details, cause I forget But it was over l00 miles.
Maybe that is just territory covered by wild teenagers, I dunno.

[bipto]

I don't know, Streamrunner. You know as well as I do how cold it can get in the Upper Midwest. I don't think it's as simple as liking snow or not. These things would either need to hibernate (which no other primate does, as far as I know) or find the vast amount of feed required to keep them going. When it's 30 to 40 degrees below zero? I can recall whole weeks where the temp never got above zero, and that's without the wind chill. It would be worse in the northern parts of the state. I don't think it gets anywhere near that bad in the PNW, but I could be wrong. Higher elevations I'm sure as just as bad...

Bottom line is I think they have to move out of this area in the winter. I don't think there'd be enough food for them and there's no evidence they hibernate...

[RobUstes]

A few quick thoughts on this:

Deer dont hibernate either, yet they are able to find food. Browse, corn, acorns. Sasquatch have many things to eat too, corn, trash, acorns, browse, roadkill, winterkill, and pine needles. They arent going to get fat on a winter diet, but they will and do survive. Sasquatch are a highly adaptable animal, and opportunistic feeder. Winterkill and scavenging may account for a much higher winter food source than we think.

Pine needles are a good source of sugar. Its the sugar that keeps them from freezing. Needles have been found in alot of winter sassi scat. Monkeys in North Africa have been seen eating needles in the snow too.

I dont think they migrate per say. I feel they have an extended home range, they forage thru during various parts of the year. Food, cover and human activity account for where they are going to be, mostly. Some clans get accustomed to human activity, and they will stick around, provided the cover is there. This range may be as much or more than 200 square miles, depending on the region.

[jon a. larsen]

i've seen tracks in snow twice......in north dakota the tracks came down a ravine and up to the road and turned and went back to higher country.....in Utah the tracks were heading to the highest ground i could see..........

[Arkansan]

Pine needles are a good source of sugar. Its the sugar that keeps them from freezing. Needles have been found in alot of winter sassi scat. Monkeys in North Africa have been seen eating needles in the snow too.

This is really interesting Rob because I have heard of them eating pine needles in winter before. Supposedly the pine needles act as a type of anti-freeze on the body?? That is really interesting and makes me want to check the pine thickets in winter.

I honestly wonder what they do in times even here in the south when we have those vicious ice storms. I mean nearly every tree is damaged and everything is entirely covered in solid as rock layers of ice sometimes several inches thick. Temperatures in the teens for a week at a time sometimes. That has got to be vicious on them and other wildlife too.
It would probably make them more desperate for food if nothing else.

I have no idea what my point is supposed to be!

[bipto]

Alls I'm saying is it just doesn't get cold up here and snow a little. It's pretty much frozen solid for three to four months. I have a hard time believing a great big primate could survive a quarter of the year eating pine needles and acorns. That stuff might suffice for short periods, but not ninety days.

Though it isn't conclusive, I'll also point out the BFRO's database doesn't list any sightings up here in the winter (at least none they're sharing with the rest of the world!). With the number of folks out ice fishing, cross country skiing, and snowmobiling during that time, you'd think there'd be one brush with our tall, dark, and hairy friend...

[RobUstes]

With the number of folks out ice fishing, cross country skiing, and snowmobiling during that time, you'd think there'd be one brush with our tall, dark, and hairy friend...

Well, first off, during winter, ever notice how sound travels ??? ALOT further away. And snowmobiles make a helluva racket !!! And thats just with our poor hearing :wink: And yes, there are reports from your neck of the woods (Minn, Wis, ND, SD, ID) in the winter, but i think due to the increased sound and lack of cover (leaves, growth) they are harder to spot. (edit: i mean, they will stay further away from people, they wont be comfortable to get in closer without the cover) I also feel they walk the streams more in winter or go to higher elevations, places people arent.

They also eat roadkill and winterkill (animals who passed from health or lack of food), they can also find hibernating animals, such as rodents, rabbits, even bear perhaps.

Arkan, the sugar doesnt keep the sassi from freezin, it keeps the pine needles from freezin .... to the sassi , its just an excellent source of carbs.

The hair on their body gives a certain amount of insulation, and the sheer mass keeps the core temps in the normal range. A larger animal has a much greater chance of riding out the winter than a smaller animal. Less surface area per pound to give off heat. Look at buffalo, for instance.

[bipto]

Well, first off, during winter, ever notice how sound travels ??? ALOT further away. And snowmobiles make a helluva racket !!! And thats just with our poor hearing :wink: And yes, there are reports from your neck of the woods (Minn, Wis, ND, SD, ID) in the winter, but i think due to the increased sound and lack of cover (leaves, growth) they are harder to spot. (edit: i mean, they will stay further away from people, they wont be comfortable to get in closer without the cover) I also feel they walk the streams more in winter or go to higher elevations, places people arent.

They also eat roadkill and winterkill (animals who passed from health or lack of food), they can also find hibernating animals, such as rodents, rabbits, even bear perhaps.

Yeah, the snowmobilers aren't going to see anything, but cross country skiing, ice fishing, and snow shoeing are pretty quit activities. The snow'd make pretty good tracking material, too.

I've never seen any roadkill in the winter up here. Lots in the spring, but never anything in the winter (never). They might dig up a hibernating bunny or two, I suppose.

I'm not saying all the sasquatch head for Palm Beach in the winter! I'm sure they stay in more temperate locations all year 'round where the worst of winter is only about a month long. All BFRO has to do is post a solid February sighting in the Iron Range and then I'll keep quiet!

[RobUstes]

I've never seen any roadkill in the winter up here. Lots in the spring, but never anything in the winter (never).

Well GEE .. i wonder why ??? :wink:

[RobUstes]

ok, dug out my old book by Dr Krantz, Big Footprints

on pages 162-163 he speaks about winter and sasquatchs.

Winter survival is a problem for most species in temperate climates, and there are many ways that this can be handled. How the sasquatch manages is not directly known, but some pertinent observations can be made. They do not hibernate for months like some rodents, nor sleep soundly like bears, because they and their tracks are encountered year round. John Green's records show a decrease in reports by about one-half during the months of January, February, and March. That decrease more likely represents a reduction in human activities than in sasquatch behavior. It is true that trappers are active in the winter, but they are much less likely to talk about thier observations than are the usual vacationers and explorers. .... As winter begins we seem to be out in it as much as possible, making preparations for difficult weather ahead, or engaged in sporting events. As winter ends, and the snow is melting, transportation is greatly impeded and few people are in places where sasquatches are usuallly to be found.

He goes on to speak of bears hibernating, giving sassi a better chance at available food, pine needles and their sugar content and Bob Titmus.

... are found only where some kind of pine is part of the natural vegetation. This turned out to be true for almost all of the reports that i have mapped out. ... There may be much more to sasquatch winter survival than just food supply. They are likely to put on a thick layer of fat in the fall, both for insulation and as a calorie supply to draw upon later.

He then speaks of migration, from what he's heard, 90 miles in a north-south line as the crow flies, in northern california.

I guess , when i finally get one to sit down with me next to a campfire and share coffee, then i can ask Da Big Guy ... till then, we can only speculate (gotta give me fingers a break now, they are numb !! )

[bipto]

Excellent transcription, Rob! You should look into court reporting!

I think we need to preface all this with where we're talking about. I wouldn't expect them to migrate much at all in the PNW or California. Likewise, I wouldn't expect them to go far in the Southeast. As far as the Northeast goes, well, if my neighbors hadn't pointed it out I would have missed the one winter I spent in Boston! These creatures are no doubt well prepared for the winter in those climates. I agree with what Krantz wrote.

But (there's always a but), the lowest temperature recorded in MN was -60 in Tower, which you can see from this map, is smack in the heart of Bigfoot Central, Minnesota. Tower (and nearby Ely) are routinely in the -10 to -30 range in January and February. Antifreeze freezes, windshield wiper fluid turns into blue syrup, and if you throw a cup of water into the air it'll turn to ice before it hits the ground. I'm not even sure the moose and the deer hang around when it's that cold. (Come to think of it, what am I doing up there then!?!)

I'm not saying they all migrate. I'm not saying the ones who do migrate do it just because it gets cold and snows. I am saying I think they move out of Minnesota because the climate would make it impossible for a primate of that size to live.

[Arkansan]

and if you throw a cup of water into the air it'll turn to ice before it hits the ground.

Wow, now that would be neat to see!!
I couldn't imagine anything sticking around for temps that low and conditions that intense. I would definitely head for warmer temps if I was a bigfoot. It just makes sense, why stay when you could do better somewhere else.

Of course I am not saying this is what they do, cause I have no idea, but it would seem the logical thing to do if I were in their shoes. :wink:

[jimf]

Streamrunner mentioned a set of tracks identical 100 miles apart.If I remember (i'll have to look it up somewhere )it was actually "patty" I think her original tracks were found 5 years earlier by someone.Byrne maybe ?or Titmus

[Streamrunner]

whoooooooaaa I caused all that?? eeeepppsss
I like the reference to the availability of Bob Titmus Rob good one

[Streamrunner]

Jim
I KNOW it was in some reference book I read
dang if I can remember which one though.

[jon a. larsen]

this is one of the instances that i referred to earlier on this forum where krantz (it seems to me) got off on a tangent..........he talked about the antifreeze qualities of pine needles (as it has been pointed out) but got stuck on the idea.........somewhere in there you will see a statement something like....i,ve noticed that sasquatches are always reported in areas where there are pine trees...as if the lack of them, because they´re sooooo scarce, would make it necessary for sasquatch to carry a good supply with him if he ever left an area where a pine tree wasn´t within easy reach............in the same manner, he fixated on "grammavorous"as the sasquatches preferred diet....with no supporting evidence from the fossil jaws.......he continued this through many pages of Big Footprints...(i didn´t count) and finally conceded that they were probably ....(if i recall correctly) "opportunistic omnivores"........continuing...........the typical adult male sasquatch is 7 ft 8 inches tall..... the animal that i saw north of moscow ......was tall, slim AND white....and therefore there was something wrong with my report......the animal i saw had to be an albino....couldn,t just be an old one.....used patti and an immature male for his model of what a typical adult male sasquatch looks like ......don´t get me wrong.....he was right about a great many things.......but....word of caution here...not everything.......we all are in error sometimes.....none are immune..........................................................................
..............

[Arkansan]

Oh is that where I heard about the anti-freeze pine needles?? LOL
Thanks Jon, I had forgotten where I had read that. That has to be it. :wink:

[RobUstes]

Jon
Oh i totally agree... Krantz was a wonderful man and scientist, but got caught up in the (what i call) stone-wall-science .... he had no belief in the existence of sasquatch east of the Mississippi river (or far from the PNW for that matter). I know for a FACT that they are, and perhaps (key word there) even more so than in the PNW.

And i agree with Grover that they are opportunistic feeders. They will grab anything that edible, even stuff that isnt, and try it anyway. (esp the juvis)(big dumb monkeys LOL )

They do seem to prefer pine groves with a stream running thru it, but i dont think thats an exclusive by any means. i know they like bottom land, that could be food, water or cover, not sure which yet. But pine needles make an excellent bed, nice soft and insulating, and quiet to walk on. Add to this that its a good source of winter carbs ... and voila !!

I am not questioning your report of slim-white, but "typical" in the usage there, was "normal" or "average" . We have a 12 footer running around here, but the average appears to be 8-10 foot males. The average adult human male is only 5 foot 10 inches, with a small few reaching 7 foot and higher. I think the same applies to sasquatch (normal range 7-10 foot, a few much taller).

[ziggyone]

We have films of caribou and swallows and geese migrating.
Where are the films of Bigfoot doing the same?

Answer: none. :roll:

Ziggy[/b]

[bipto]

Where are the bigfoot films period? There's, what, a few. None as good as the Patterson film.

Like I said up there somewhere, it's entirely possible that they migrate out of some areas but not others. Maybe certain populations but not others. I guess the only way to know would be to tag one with a radio transmitter and follow it around for a few years!

[Arkansan]

We have no films of bigfoot creatures doing anything at all...unless you count walking as doing something. :roll:

[RB]

Well, if Bigfoot could flap his arms and fly like a bird...I'll bet we could get some wonderful footage of him flying, migrating, picking his nose, etc...

[jimf]

Well, if Bigfoot could flap his arms and fly like a bird...I'll bet we could get some wonderful footage of him flying, migrating, picking his nose, etc...

As long as he doesn't play like a Seagull on my car sometimes I hate living by a large body of water,swear it costs more to wash the car than it does for gas..

[RB]

Birdie, birdie in the sky,
Why'd you do that in my eye?
Oh, so very glad am I,
That big 'ol Sasquatch cannot fly!

Author Unknown

[jimf]

LMAO.amen to that.

[nightwing]

This is an interesting topic!
Being from the Upper midwest myself, I often think that people from other parts of the country really don't understand just how bad winter can get up here.
Last year, in a single week in December we had nearly 90" of snow(yes, 90, as in nearly 8 feet!), and the temp hit -25 on 3 nights. And this was in one of the more "mild"(temperature-wise) areas, western Lower Michigan!
further north(in the U.P., Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota), it gets even colder!, and in the case of the Upper Penisula, this deep cold comes with awesome ammounts of lake-effect snow, nearly 400" per year in some places.
The drastic severity of our winters causes wildlife to adapt, or perish.
Deer in the snowbelts off of Lake Superior and Lake Michigan often migrate south or east, vacating the area entirely in a real bad winter, so there is some precedent for seasonal migration of large animals in this area.
The wilderness areas of the Upper Midwest are just that, true wilderness on the order found elsware in the lower 48 only in a few areas of the PNW, and possibly, northern Main.
We are talking tracts of 40=50 miles with no roads worth mentioning, and almost no human habitation.
Which leads me to my idea on where sassy goes in the depth of a northern Lakes states winter...
Deer tend to "yard" in these deep wildernes areas just outside of the primary snowbelts, using vast, thick cedar and spruce swamps for this purpose.
Hundreds of square miles of roadless, difficult terrain, interspersed with deep cedar thickets. Lots of rock outcrops, millions of blowdowns in the swamps.
These large, nearly impenatrable areas would be a prime place for sasquatch to hang out, and pick off the occasional straggler and weak deer, as well as have constant on-hand access to the pine and cedar needles mentioned earlier in the thread.
Wolves and coyotes make good use of this tactic, and may even provide an easier source of meat(a couple of bigfoot could likely drive off a pack of wolves from a kill).
So, I do think bigfood migrates in our area, but I think it is for relatively short distances, just far enough to find one of the many isolated deer yards, and there they set up shop in some hidden nook or cranny, as far away from any likely human travel as you can get in the lower 48, and munch on vennison for the winter!
Sasquatch would leave very little in the way of evidence in such an area, as they would be traveling in and out of extremely tough terrain, and most evidence such as tracks would be destroyed or covered by the next snowfall, or more likely, by the constant churning of thousands of deer hooves.
Just a theory mind you, but since the wolves, coyotes, and even our rare mountain lions seem to do this, why not sasquatch?
I noticed earlier in the thread that the possible use of food caches and road-kill was mentioned.
The food cache idea is, I think, very valid in this instance. Deer and other food could easily be cached or saved for extended periods of time, possibly buried in the snow, placed in trees(there have been a few cases of dead deer being found high in trees in Michigan, which to me leaves only sasquatch and cougars as realisitc possibilities, both of which are not generaly accepted to be living here).
As to road kill, while I don't doubt that bigfoot will take "road pizza" if he finds it, I don't think it will be a major feature of his diet in the upper midwest. The reason is that roadkill drops drasticaly in winter for a couple of reasons. First, the movement and activity of most wildlife drops drasticaly in winter, reducing by an equal ammount the number of car-wildlife encounters.
Secondly, in many of the most "weather impaired" areas, there is little in the way of roads or traffic anyway!
When the only road for 40 miles is a few logging two-tracks, which are covered in 5 feet of snow, autos just are not an option. While some roads remain open to logging vehicles and snowmowbiles, these account for very few roadkills.
And, the main roads that do get traveled, have reduced numbers of kills for the previous reasons, so all in all, there just aint' much winter meat to be had this way!
Now, certainly the "wilderness" aspect is not universal up here, many areas with brutal weather are indeed quite built up(Duluth, Marquette, just to name a couple), but all in all, much of this area really is not subject to roadkill of the type found in areas of greater general habitation.
Like the PNW, this is the real deal, true back country, and I think anything living here must rely on natural means to subsist.
Thats why I think, if bigfoot really does move seasonaly, they may well move into the deer yard areas because this is where the greatest concentration of food, with the least likelyhood of human encounters, is found.

[jimf]

Man Nightwing you really thought about that alot haven't you .I agree with everything you said about the weather conditions and how Bf may have to adaot to the enviorment in Mi.It seems like it was more than 90" when I was shoveling my drive everyday in Battle Creek,so Ican only guess as to what you went through living inG.R. that much closer to the lake.

[bipto]

Excellent post, nightwing! Well thought out. I didn't know about the deer yards since I'm just a know-it-all web guy, but that makes a lot of sense to me. Do you know if moose migrate? That's always been the nagging problem with my theory that big mammals would have a hard time finding enough to eat in the winter. Moose are pretty darn big, or can be, and I've wondered if they go anywhere.

Dead deer in trees could only mean three things. 1, Courgar. 2, Bigfoot. 3, Accident-prone, pole vaulting deer.

Again, great post!

[Arkansan]

Bravo Nightwing! I think you said that very well.
I agree with you on that. I think the people who will argue the most over the subject of migration are southerners. I think that is because here in the south the creatures don't have the need to migrate in winter like they do up there and thus probably don't. But what you said just makes sense. Sometimes it is hard for people to let go of the preconceived notions about things and realize they are different in different areas of the world.
90" of snow!!!
I thought it was bad when we got 16" of snow in 3 days! But 90"!!! Wow!
I don't think I like snow that much! LOL

Anyway, just wanted to say that I think you made an excellent point. :wink:

[bipto]

[off topic comment]

We had 36" of snow on Halloween here once. Then 17" more on Thanksgiving. That be a lot of white stuff!

[/off topic comment]

[nightwing]

The 90" was a one week record for Allegan Co., and fell about 25 miles S.W. of me.
Right where I live, in the southern suburbs of Grand Rapids, we "only" had 67" in that same time frame!
Lake Effect snow can be very fickle, you can get 2-3 feet in one spot, and 5 miles away the sun is shining, with nothing at all!
Remember the news last winter of Buffalo NY getting all that snow? The heavy snow band(60-80 inches) fell in a strip less than 5 miles wide, and 15-20 miles long. Thats it!
I suppose I should also add that when that much snow falls, you don't end up with all 90" piled up that deep. The snow compacts under its own weight, and you get a bit over 1/2 the actual depth, so in this case a week later there was about 4-4.5 actual feet on the ground.
Still, mighty deep snow!
A friend of mine has a cabin near the town of Petosky, well north of here. At the water treatment plant there, that same week, they had 125" of snow!!! Now THATS some serious white stuff!
Yet, 20 miles inland from there, there was less than a foot of snow.
This is why, in many areas, bigfoot would not need to travel particularly far to get to an easier area.