Once and for all, Go big or go home!! Options

[Dudlow]

I think the sooner someone gets dogs on the trail of a bf the sooner bf will be proven.

According to many of the available reports, BF only appear to tolerate dogs who are not openly aggressive towards them. I have read reports by other researchers (on another forum) who use their dogs to alert them to cougars and bear while in the field. In the beginning, at first scent of BF, the dogs would usually hightail it back to the car in abject fear, all the while their masters hollering for them to come back. But after being exposed to the scent a number of times and being quietly walked on a leash through the research area repeatedly, the dogs become accustomed to BF being around and did not react unfavorably or in fear or aggressively. And at that point, neither did BF react badly to these now accustomed dogs. So dogs can be habituated to the presence of BF as long as they are not being asked to 'sick 'em'.

On the other hand, according to John Green, professional dog handlers and trackers were brought into the Bluff Creek area from the late 1950s (if I recall correctly) through the mid-1960s, but even these 'high blood', trained dogs proved to be quite useless, refusing to track. As he put it in one of his books, Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us, Second Paper Edition, 2006, p.75: "At the first sniff the dog turned as rigid as if she had been given an electric shock." Professional tracking dogs are apparently just as terrified of the BF scent as ordinary household dogs.

With a few reported exceptions aggressive dogs set to the task that do take up the scent either don't come back or are often found mortally wounded or dismembered. I have read a number of farm reports like this. For the most part, the sooner someone gets willing dogs on the trail of a BF the sooner BF will simply kill the dogs. I recall reading one report a few years ago of a pack of dogs being disemboweled, one by one, by a BF they had treed. As each dog lept up toward the branch holding the BF, he would reach down and grab one, lift it off the ground and reportedly disembowel it with his fingers or simply crush it, then toss it away until he could snatch the next dog; until there were no snapping jaws left to silence. Smart fellows, these BF!

Put it this way: If I owned a dog the last thing I would do is let it anywhere near BF.
Dudlow

[PEPPERSFARMS]

Question for anyone who hunts with dogs. Do know of another animal dogs will not track?

[redneck7]

According to many of the available reports, BF only appear to tolerate dogs who are not openly aggressive towards them. I have read reports by other researchers (on another forum) who use their dogs to alert them to cougars and bear while in the field. In the beginning, at first scent of BF, the dogs would usually hightail it back to the car in abject fear, all the while their masters hollering for them to come back. But after being exposed to the scent a number of times and being quietly walked on a leash through the research area repeatedly, the dogs become accustomed to BF being around and did not react unfavorably or in fear or aggressively. And at that point, neither did BF react badly to these now accustomed dogs. So dogs can be habituated to the presence of BF as long as they are not being asked to 'sick 'em'.

On the other hand, according to John Green, professional dog handlers and trackers were brought into the Bluff Creek area from the late 1950s (if I recall correctly) through the mid-1960s, but even these 'high blood', trained dogs proved to be quite useless, refusing to track. As he put it in one of his books, Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us, Second Paper Edition, 2006, p.75: "At the first sniff the dog turned as rigid as if she had been given an electric shock." Professional tracking dogs are apparently just as terrified of the BF scent as ordinary household dogs.

With a few reported exceptions aggressive dogs set to the task that do take up the scent either don't come back or are often found mortally wounded or dismembered. I have read a number of farm reports like this. For the most part, the sooner someone gets willing dogs on the trail of a BF the sooner BF will simply kill the dogs. I recall reading one report a few years ago of a pack of dogs being disemboweled, one by one, by a BF they had treed. As each dog lept up toward the branch holding the BF, he would reach down and grab one, lift it off the ground and reportedly disembowel it with his fingers or simply crush it, then toss it away until he could snatch the next dog; until there were no snapping jaws left to silence. Smart fellows, these BF!

Put it this way: If I owned a dog the last thing I would do is let it anywhere near BF.
Dudlow

Im not saying let the dog or dogs get killed in the the process. Fact is there are ways of useing a dog or a few dogs to track one and not get them killed. If a person trained there dog to be silent while tracking instead of hootin and hollering bf probably would be as pissed. Keep the dog on a short leash, if the dog tracks one try to get picture video something. I just dont see bf charging you and the dog, if it does decide to attack the dog your gna have footage of it what would a skeptic say, guy in ape suit rips dog tshreds. It would be a lot more convincing than the then any footage we have. I do agree if you let a pack of dogs chase a bf through the woods ur gna end up with dead dogs all over the woods. Its bs to say that dogs will die or wont track them in the first place blah blah blah that kind of attitude has been doing a lot for the bf community. If anyone else has a better idea for finding a bf please let me know. The only way a person finds a bf is dumb luck, people dont find bf, bf finds people. What if theres more people then dogs, say 1 well trained dog kept close to lets call it two or three people I dont think bf would charge, bf couldnt stay hidden for so long if it was that aggressive.

[redneck7]

The biggest problem is getting the scent. Hunting dogs get killed whether there tracking bf, bear, or cougar. But once we find a way to get the dogs a scent there is no way for bf to get away, let me repeat that bf could not get away scent is there no matter how elusive bf is. It can be done we can find/track bf through the woods , yea it might take some effort but why not? O I remember why because we are so close to proving bf's existence, why bother when we are doing such a good job now. Fact is if we cant go after bf on our own terms, were in for god knows how many more years of frustration, hoaxers, spending more and more time debating things that are pointless. How about instead of discusing possible diet, migration, ect. Why dont we spend some time and come up with a new way of geting after bf that actually works. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results This is just my opinion dont mean to offend anyone.

[BobZenor]

The thought of hunting dogs going after a bigfoot makes me think of my former Boss, a 6'5" Lieutenant in the Navy, who was afraid to go to Mexico. He heard a story of packs of up to 200 chihuahuas attacking people. He wouldn't go.

What is going to stop the Sasquatch from stomping on them one at a time? Seriously, because I don't know much about dogs. What would keep the sasquatch from killing them?

This post has been edited by BobZenor: Feb 2 2009, 04:49 PM

[redneck7]

http://www.dogscouts1.com/Dog_Activ-_Scent...tance_Detection sorry I dont know how to do proper pseudo chemical is interesting

[spudsquatch]

I would think some samples of the scent a stressed gorrila gives off would be worth a try in training dogs.

I imagine though that would be tough to obtain. Get a Gorrila all riled up and then try swab his armpits???

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

Get a Gorilla all riled up and then try swabbing his armpits???

That would present a bit of a challenge wouldn't it

Peace
Tim

[norcal logger]

Hi

Get a Gorilla all riled up and then try swabbing his armpits???

That would present a bit of a challenge wouldn't it

Peace
Tim

That reminds me of a girl I dated back in the 70's.

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

Well there is really not much to say with a confession like that, But thank heavens there are Questions ! ! Using alcohol as a scale or guide if you will, About how much did it take to date this girl on a nightly basis ?

Peace
Tim

[norcal logger]

Hi

Well there is really not much to say with a confession like that, But thank heavens there are Questions ! ! Using alcohol as a scale or guide if you will, About how much did it take to date this girl on a nightly basis ?

Peace
Tim

Oooh, she hardly had to drink anything at all, in fact, most nights she drank nothing. She was happy to date me!

(Don't forget Timmy, I spent the first 10 years of my working life living in a logging camp. If it had two legs... why, heck... if it was even 'sposed to have two legs, well it looked pretty good to me. )

Have fun, Norcal

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

This will be my last post concerning this matter

Peace
Tim

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[TooRisky]

BF and dogs do not mix period...I know of 3 sets of six hounds killed in encounters, some found up in trees 20 feet or more, others literaly smashed against trees, whiles others snapped in half like twigs....thats 18 dogs in 3 packs with 3 different groups and these were experienced bear dogs....

So there you have 18 dead dogs and 0 BF...A bear hunter and his son told me of an encounter where the BF was never seen, but the fight that happened between BF and the bear dogs was something out of the friggin twilight zone, only one dog survived, battered and bloody, they found it cowering and whimpering under the truck 10 miles from were the fight happened...

Its best you go into a known area of activity, if you need the courage of a dog, better keep it on a short leash or lose it....

This post has been edited by TooRisky: Apr 17 2009, 09:08 PM

[Tom.Merrill]

BF and dogs do not mix period...I know of 3 sets of six hounds killed in encounters, some found up in trees 20 feet or more, others literaly smashed against trees, whiles others snapped in half like twigs....thats 18 dogs in 3 packs with 3 different groups and these were experienced bear dogs....

So there you have 18 dead dogs and 0 BF...A bear hunter and his son told me of an encounter where the BF was never seen, but the fight that happened between BF and the bear dogs was something out of the friggin twilight zone, only one dog survived, battered and bloody, they found it cowering and whimpering under the truck 10 miles from were the fight happened...

Its best you go into a known area of activity, if you need the courage of a dog, better keep it on a short leash or lose it....

Where'd this happen?

[bipedalist]

That is quite a shocking account of damage to canines, it sure would have been nice to document that carnage in a video or photo or two so that it could assist others that don't believe of the danger or think the hunters are telling some tall tales.

[dxm2]

BF and dogs do not mix period...I know of 3 sets of six hounds killed in encounters, some found up in trees 20 feet or more, others literaly smashed against trees, whiles others snapped in half like twigs....thats 18 dogs in 3 packs with 3 different groups and these were experienced bear dogs....

So there you have 18 dead dogs and 0 BF...A bear hunter and his son told me of an encounter where the BF was never seen, but the fight that happened between BF and the bear dogs was something out of the friggin twilight zone, only one dog survived, battered and bloody, they found it cowering and whimpering under the truck 10 miles from were the fight happened...

Its best you go into a known area of activity, if you need the courage of a dog, better keep it on a short leash or lose it....

Please reply with as many details as possible regarding the loss of these 18 dogs. The remains of the poor dogs undoubtedly had blood from what ever killed them on their fur and in their mouths, and could be a source of Sasquatch DNA. Its truly a horrific, and incredible, event to even think about.....

[Spazmo]

Its truly a horrific, and incredible, event to even think about.....

...if true...

[BobTo]

There's a big difference between trained hounds running in a pack and "parlor parasites" better known as pets.
I love the pets but the working dogs aren't going to run away.

[iacozizzle]

Lurker guy here. Always found this report interesting --

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5770

Reno area feral dogs. Same person submitted this one also (no dogs in this one) --

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5697

This post has been edited by iacozizzle: Apr 23 2009, 05:09 PM

[BobTo]

Nice story but I don't believe it for a second.
He mentions dobermans and then 2 to 3 inch hair found from them ..... 1/2" to 1" maybe.
and then, a 2 legged animal outruns 4 legged ... I doubt it.
Ever see a doberman run after someone?
Nothing to cooberate the story, but an interesting story.

[TooRisky]

Where'd this happen?

I was reseaching in the Cascades between the gap of the 410 hi-way and I-90 (about 40 miles of mountain. I came upon a camp of bear hunters and decided to stay the night with there camp. Around the fire it came out what I was doing up there and then slowly these 3 spoke up and told of there experiences. I have no reason to not believe them and I dont think they had any reason to lie, no drinking less some hot coffee and good company. Now exactly where they were at when these things happened I cant remember, but they were each sepperate experiences. As for taking pictures, cmon have you met a bear hunter before, between gathering and tracking dogs and keeping his wits about where he is at there is no time to take pictures and if pictures are taken it would be back in camp. As for coming up on the fight scene/kill zone each must have been in complete shock and then the fear sets in with the fight or flight for safety...Not to mention each dog costs a butt load of money to buy....any way thats how I came across this info

[spookysully]

i read through most of the posts but didn't see these mentioned.

1. put cameras on the dogs!

2. put gps on the dog collar and train the dogs to hang back and... i don't know, observe?

3. watch the monitor on your laptop and you might get an idea, where to look?

seems like it might work while not being too destructive to bf or the dogs.

cheers

[FanofSquatch]

Feral dogs if I understand this term correctly means wild but not naturally wild ? If thats the case I can tell you the most bizzare thing I have ever seen is on the island of Okinawa Japan on a military base. There are packs of dogs, like 10-20 dogs, domestic breeds, Labs, shepards, beagles, ect. abandoned by military personel apon transfer, that roam the jungle and housing areas like a pack of wild animals. We called them "Boonie dogs" and a pack of them were killing cats and other dogs on base so the MP's started shooting them. They abandoned all fear of man in search of food. I witnessed an MP standing in the bed of his truck dropping dogs with a pump shotgun and the dogs were still trying to get him and attacking the dead and injured dogs.

[spookysully]

FanofSquatch,

i gotta tell ya, that story really freaks me out eh! the thought of being eaten alive by a pack of dogs, especially dogs that at one time had owners that cared for them, is just disturbing to me.

but i would venture a guess that a pack of even 10 or 20 feral dogs, as ferocious as you could get would do nothing but die horrible deaths at the hands of a pissed off and determined sasquatch. the brief sighting that i had showed me a couple of things that i think are relevant to such an encounter. 1st is the sheer size at around 9ft tall and i would guess almost 3ft thick at the chest in profile. massive! 2nd was how fast it moved, it's part of what made it so surreal. i think the number of dogs that it would take to bring down one of these creatures and actually be able to do it harm, is just not realistic to imagine a pack that big? i would always put my money on the sasquatch. your story was as disturbing as it was sad though.

cheers

[Night Stalker]

I remember reading that report on BFRO about one running down a street and in the the back yard while crashing in to the corner of the house, while running from a pack. It made me think of Hyenas.

This in stark contrast to other stories where ferrel dogs seemed to accompany a BF in a field, or domestics cowaring and hiding indoors.

Perhaps as with a lot of other conjecture related to this mythical creature, there isn't a "one size fits all" to describe how things are.

.

This post has been edited by Night Stalker: Jun 6 2009, 02:17 AM

[Grazhopprr]

I imagine you could train griz dogs, to stay at least 20 feet away from an animal. Still barking and howling, etc, but not getting close enough to it for death. Letting the dogs loose is better than being dragged by a leash. The BF would still outrun or outmanuever you. They can tree the beast, without getting close enough to be grabbed by one. Special training for that I imagine. A pack of griz chasers seem to like to get close enough to bite at it, from all directions. BFing would need a whole new set of skills for the dogs.

[Tirademan]

Well, I know I've found more, but I'd say dogs probably want nothing to do with squatch based on what I've read!

Then there's this:
http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/upl...10-911-call.mp3

And two weeks later he made this call:
http://www.bigfootsounds.com/call911.mp3

tirademan

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[Pat B.]

Yes, that would be a start IF we could be sure the samples were of an actual bf. And, even if those available samples are of an actual bf, what's to say that every bf smells the same?

I'd love to see this explored, but I just don't see a hound starting off on the scent of an animal it's never smelled before. Of course, I don't know all hounds so there might be some that would take on the task.

[bolding mine]

Jay you make an excellent point. I never thought of this before. Smart lady! I just figured they'd all smell the same ... you know ... distinctive from other animals ... and stinky. But to a dog, each human has a different scent. It's why the police (for example) use a piece of clothing from the person they're tracking, to get the dog to follow that specific person. So I wonder if that's the case for these things too. If they would each have a specific odour like we do.

And if they each has a distinctive scent, it would make it that much harder for a dog to track one, since first you'd have to present the dog with that individual bf's scent, train him on it, and send him searching for that particular one ... ach ... the mind boggles.

Anyway ... good thinking.

[JayleeD]

Thanks Pat!

I wonder if their environment would have an effect on their scent also. The food they eat, ground they sit on, trees in the area, etc. I would think that depending on the area of the country they are in would have a profound effect on their smell. In other words, would a bf from GA smell the same as a bf from OK?

Don't know, but it's interesting to think about.

[Pat B.]

That's an interesting idea, Jay.

Returning to the thought that they might each have a distinctive scent like we do, I wonder if apes have scents that vary from individual to individual? Or if it's a feature that's distinctive only to humans.

[nightwing]

Pat, I would almost bet that these guys do have unique individual scents. We do, as to all other animals(dogs can easily ID a "new" dog just by the scent, for instance). As to if they can detect that difference that's likely a debate, but I'd have to guess they can. Humans can detect "individual" scents even if we don't realize it, and my guess is their sniffer is better then ours if only due to a lack of environmental damage we endure from chemicals and stuff nearly from day one, and the fact that natural selection would push a better sense of smell.
We need Rod so send us some "natural" hominid scent to use as camera bait!

[Night Stalker]

A unique scent makes sense to me. I think there's going to be some commonality, but what it has recently eaten, and where it has been should have some bearing.

After a nice swim might make some difference and if you got a good week long sweat about you, probably gonna smell like arse.

I think life long bad breath is a given.

.

[eldonkey]

Might it be prudent then to pass the scent of Tom Biscardi on to your scent tracking dog??? I mean, this way, if you are out in the woods, and you suspect you may be the target of a Biscardi led hoax, your dog can take you right too him.... I'd like that opportunity....to catch him red-handed.... Just a thought....