Bigfoot and required protein intake. Options

[Redwolf]

Sirloin steak? mmmm

I am predicting you will soon discover a lot of tracks in your backyard!

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 1 2008, 07:44 PM

[FoxJr]

Look sorry, I got riled up, but this is a real important topic to me...

Seriously, and I welcome any idea, what are they living on in all these areas they are sighted? Are they like buzzards? Scavengers more or less? Is there enough fruit and berries and rodents to support one? He dang sure aint built like the average top tier predator, so that casts doubt on his eating much fresh red meat.?

I'm done arguing about theories of evolution, we are all probably wrong anyway? What is he eating!!!!

[Drew]

I'd like to know what Bigfoot eats as well.
But anything related to diet of Bigfoot is subject to conjecture. All we have are Reports of Bigfoot diving into a salmon river, and stealing goats, raiding trash bins.

What is needed is a stomach sample, or some scat, until then no one can answer your question FOX JR., so there is no reason to get bent over it.

You are asking for what people think bigfoot MIGHT eat? right? so you are going to get unsupported opinions, which might not fit what you think should be the case.

[lookinginmichiga...]

Drew
Apr 2 2008, 09:37 AM
I'd like to know what Bigfoot eats as well.
But anything related to diet of Bigfoot is subject to conjecture. All we have are Reports of Bigfoot diving into a salmon river, and stealing goats, raiding trash bins.

What is needed is a stomach sample, or some scat...

what does Professor Farnsworfht say?
Professor:Bunk! Bunk I say! Bring me a bag full of Bigfoot's droppings or shut up!
Park: I have the droppings of someone who saw Bigfoot.
Professor: Shut up!

Sorry I just had to put that in...

Back to the thread, I thought I have seen reports of scat collected. Anyone else?

[Redwolf]

From the PNW perspective, here is a sampling:

Shellfish
Fish
Crustaceans
Grubs/larvae/Bugs (caterpillars are as high in protein as beef) termites, ants, etc...
Small rodents
Small mammals
Honey
Birds
Eggs

Seeds/nuts - pine nuts, hazelnut, butternut, beechnut,

Berries - huckleberry, elderberry, salmonberry, wild blueberry, hawthorne, cranberry, mountain ash, bunchberry, salal, oregon grape etc...

Fruits - wild plum crabapple, serviceberry, currant, barberry, pin cherry, rose hips, etc...

Roots/tubers/bulbs - wild onion, garlic and other alliums, cattails, lilies, camas,

Plants/leaves - fiddlehead fern, solomon's seal, wild lettuce, dandylion, fairly bells, nettles, salal, claytonia, chickweed, dock, barley, sorrel, mustard, thistle, bearberry, mugwort, yarrow, honeysuckle and other numerous flowers etc...

Mushrooms- chanterelles and winter chanterelles, morel, oyster, puffballs, prince, pig's ears, candycaps, fairywings, etc..

I have always toyed with the abandoned orchard idea..there are a lot of old orchards in the PNW.

The inner bark of cottonwood, Doug fir, balsam, and hemlock was used as emergency food by PNW natives in the spring

Now, the above wild foods are edible to humans (though I wouldn't recommend some of them) but there are probably foods that sasquatch have adapted to that humans haven't. JMHO of course.

Redwolf

As a public service, if you decide to take this list and go foraging..I am not responsible for your medical bills. NA knew when and how to harvest these foods and what parts to eat or avoid.

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 2 2008, 11:02 AM

[Drew]

Don't forget whales, and seals.
Lot's of fat on those.

[Redwolf]

Well, yes, I suppose if a sasquatch had access to a beached whale or seal, it might take advantage of the situation. My list is compiled along the lines of what it accessible without tools..like a canoe and harpoon

[rockinkt]

Excellent list Redwolf!

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

I agree very good list

But i didn't see any Reptiles on there

I'm sure the Big Guy wouldn't pass up a good snake or lizard, There are some good size salamanders out there also

Peace
Tim

[Drew]

Yes, and frogs.

And Octopi. http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/

Although the Octopi are endangered due to Sasquatch predation http://zapatopi.net/bsa/octopus.html

This post has been edited by Drew: Apr 2 2008, 01:39 PM

[RedRatSnake]

Yes, and frogs.

And Octopi. http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/

Although the Octopi are endangered due to Sasquatch predation http://zapatopi.net/bsa/octopus.html

Hi

I always forget the Frogs poor little guys make a good meal

I love that site, I came across it a week or so ago while researching,

Everyone reading the thread should check it out, Very Cool

Peace
Tim

[Drew]

Dude...

[Redwolf]

oops left out the frogs and lizards. Good catch. I have a partially digested froggy in my freezer as we speak. The famous plum barf. It also included dogwood leaves and the undesirable California plums with labels!

I noticed that I placed berries in the fruit column because I had meant to combine the two columns. doh! I also highly recommend Plant's of the Pacific Northwest Coast by Pojar and MacKinnon and Ethnobotany by Daniel Moerman for further reading.


I just clicked on that site Drew. Excellent!

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 2 2008, 03:49 PM

[bipedalist]

Four or five or these big daddies, plethodon yonahlosse, Yonahlossee Salamander, would satisfy a big hunger in a squatch. They can exceed 8 or 9 inches where I've seen them in rock formations/crevices/caves. They have a limited range in Southern Appalachians and they have enormous eyes, front facing that give off a great red glow when hit with light in the dark, if you are on a level with them and crawling in a cave, it can freak you a bit.

http://www.pingleton.com/LifeList/yonahlossee.htm

PS This guy Pingleton has an awesome journal of his herping forays and seems well attuned to the field

This post has been edited by bipedalist: Apr 2 2008, 04:09 PM

[mkianni]

They might taste pretty bad though.


http://amphibiaweb.org/cgi/amphib_query?qu...ies=yonahlossee

P. Anti-Predator Mechanisms. Yonahlossee salamanders produce tail secretions that are noxious to birds and other potential predators (Petranka, 1998). Yonahlossee salamanders frequently become immobile when initially contacted. Immobility may increase survival by making the salamander less likely to be detected, especially by visually oriented predators (Dodd, 1989).

A lot of species of salamanders have anti-predator mechanisms.

There's one from the PNW I believe that is huge.
It secrets a chemical the will cause the predators mouth to become glued shut.
I can't remember the name.

Others are highly poisonous. I saw a show recently that ran a story of two campers who were killed at their camp site. Their death was a mystery to investigators until someone looked in the coffee pot. Apparently, a salamander got into the pot and was brewed right along with the coffee. I don't recall them mentioning the name of the species that was responsible for their deaths.

edit.........Correction.......I noted wrong color for salamander from PNW, I was thinking of another species.
Still deadly to predators though.

This post has been edited by mkianni: Apr 2 2008, 05:07 PM

[bipedalist]

*note to self* no camp brew without checking for poisonous salamander secretions

[mkianni]

I edited my last post with a color correction.
I'm trying to locate the salamander from the PNW that I read about and now I can't find it anywhere.
I'll keep looking.
I thought that large salamanders would be a good choice of food for Bigfoot too, until I started doing some reading about them.

[bipedalist]

The reason I'm so stupefied by the salamander defense is that by square meter of forest, they occupy the densest source of protein/food per pound in deciduous temperate forests, period.

This post has been edited by bipedalist: Apr 2 2008, 05:11 PM

[mkianni]

Not all species are deadly.
Maybe bigfoot, like other predators, have come to know the difference.

[bipedalist]

I would think they would have disappeared long ago if they had not come to an understanding between "go and no-go" when it come to food, but it goes to show
just how precarious living in the forest is.

[Redwolf]

I edited my last post with a color correction.
I'm trying to locate the salamander from the PNW that I read about and now I can't find it anywhere.
I'll keep looking.
I thought that large salamanders would be a good choice of food for Bigfoot too, until I started doing some reading about them.

LOL I almost posted that you sounded like you were confusing a salamander with some urban legends we have regarding banana slugs!


I have heard several variations on the newt/salamander in the coffee pot story. Salamanders and newts are best left alone (though we do admire them with gloves on here at the Harper farm, my daughter once found a teeny baby newt that was bright orange. Cutest damn thing) There are much better food choices out there!

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 2 2008, 05:21 PM

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

I,m sure BF knows a little of the life cycle of some animals and uses that to his advantage, Like after a warm rain you can find the little redback salamanders all over, Bet BF eats them like popcorn, He might also know the den spots of some other reptiles, He has plenty of time to sit and wait for them to show,

Peace
Tim

[mkianni]

LOL I almost posted that you sounded like you were confusing a salamander with some urban legends we have regarding banana slugs!

Good grief RW, that thing can get to be almost 10 inches!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_slug

Just big enough for a hot dog bun!!

I'm kidding........I'm kidding.

edit........and it's the official mascot of the University of California!! It's a slug!

This post has been edited by mkianni: Apr 2 2008, 05:35 PM

[Redwolf]

Not to bad with a little ketchup, but I don't recommend stepping on them barefoot

Redratsnake, those little red back salamanders have rather nasty secretions from what I have read.

[RedRatSnake]

Not to bad with a little ketchup, but I don't recommend stepping on them barefoot

Redratsnake, those little red back salamanders have rather nasty secretions from what I have read.

Hi

The Garter snakes eat the ones around here, For BF it might be an acquired taste

Peace
Tim

[FoxJr]

From the PNW perspective, here is a sampling:

Shellfish
Fish
Crustaceans
Grubs/larvae/Bugs (caterpillars are as high in protein as beef) termites, ants, etc...
Small rodents
Small mammals
Honey
Birds
Eggs

Seeds/nuts - pine nuts, hazelnut, butternut, beechnut,

Berries - huckleberry, elderberry, salmonberry, wild blueberry, hawthorne, cranberry, mountain ash, bunchberry, salal, oregon grape etc...

Fruits - wild plum crabapple, serviceberry, currant, barberry, pin cherry, rose hips, etc...

Roots/tubers/bulbs - wild onion, garlic and other alliums, cattails, lilies, camas,

Plants/leaves - fiddlehead fern, solomon's seal, wild lettuce, dandylion, fairly bells, nettles, salal, claytonia, chickweed, dock, barley, sorrel, mustard, thistle, bearberry, mugwort, yarrow, honeysuckle and other numerous flowers etc...

Mushrooms- chanterelles and winter chanterelles, morel, oyster, puffballs, prince, pig's ears, candycaps, fairywings, etc..

I have always toyed with the abandoned orchard idea..there are a lot of old orchards in the PNW.

The inner bark of cottonwood, Doug fir, balsam, and hemlock was used as emergency food by PNW natives in the spring

Now, the above wild foods are edible to humans (though I wouldn't recommend some of them) but there are probably foods that sasquatch have adapted to that humans haven't. JMHO of course.

Redwolf

As a public service, if you decide to take this list and go foraging..I am not responsible for your medical bills. NA knew when and how to harvest these foods and what parts to eat or avoid.

Has anyone researched this data? My question is 'Is this enough calories/TDN to sustain a warm blooded animal that reportly weighs over 600+lbs mature?' and how much of this forage is available year round? Bears hibernate to compensate seasonal cycles when nutrition is below required levels, BF reports are pretty much year round, therefore I preclude BF hibernation.

Perhaps BF has an evolved digestive tract, to some degree anyway, and it utilizing something totally outside the realm of normal thinking? Maybe some type of nutrient rich lichen or even an unidentified tuber? Anyone recall any of the eyewitnesses (those generally considered reliable) reporting the BF eating or appearing to consume something out of the norm?

One point, I don't really identify a majority of the documented sightings reporting the individuals in the process of eating, foraging or food gathering, just a few here and there. Wouldn't he be pretty busy trying to make a living off the above mentioned forages, and at least leave behind alot more evidence of his endeavors to be documented following some of the sightings? Ie. overturned rocks, stripped bushes and trees, peeled bark, clam/oyster shells, excavated rodent dens?

Anyone got anymore insight on these subjects?

[mkianni]

Hey Foxjr.
One of the moderators had some questions for you here, just in case you might have missed it.

[RedRatSnake]

Hi


One of our members had a great sighting yrs ago, He watched a BF from a deer stand for several minutes picking berries of a bush, The BF was so picky about them that he would throw the ones he must not have liked away, To me that kinda gives the impression that the Bigguy was not starving and had plenty of time to sit and eat only what he liked, then there is the post about BF digging a deep hole into some large boulders and coming up with a nest of rodents that he shared with his family, Cool Stuff


Peace
Tim

This post has been edited by redratsnake: Apr 2 2008, 07:39 PM

[Redwolf]

The food listed are available much of the year. The Western PNW is quite lush even in the winter. The foods listed were obtained through ethnobotany sources which means they were eaten by the Native Americans. The nutritional information is available on much of these food sources, you just need to look for it. I think people underestimate the nutritional content of many wild foods. The caterpillar information was an eye-opener for me.

I have seen evidence of peeled bark, excavated rodent dens and turned over logs/shredded logs. Were these done by deer, coyote, fox and bear? More than likely, but it is done.

There are reports of sasquatch gathering berries, eating fish, digging for shellfish, foraging gardens and dumps. I have never seen a bear eating, but I know they do. I have never seen a fox eating, but I know they do. I have never seen a coyote eating...though hubby saw one carrying a coke can in it's mouth...

Anyway, I have made my point.

Redwolf

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 2 2008, 08:09 PM

[FoxJr]

The food listed are available much of the year. The Western PNW is quite lush even in the winter. The foods listed were obtained through ethnobotany sources which means they were eaten by the Native Americans. The nutritional information is available on much of these food sources, you just need to look for it. I think people underestimate the nutritional content of many wild foods. The caterpillar information was an eye-opener for me.

I have seen evidence of peeled bark, excavated rodent dens and turned over logs/shredded logs. Were these done by deer, coyote, fox and bear? More than likely, but it is done.

There are reports of sasquatch gathering berries, eating fish, digging for shellfish, foraging gardens and dumps. I have never seen a bear eating, but I know they do. I have never seen a fox eating, but I know they do. I have never seen a coyote eating...though hubby saw one carrying a coke can in it's mouth...

Anyway, I have made my point.

Redwolf

I hate to disagee Red, but personally, unless the animal was retreating, trying to avoid confrontation, (which is the usual result) the above mentioned bear, fox and coyote, that I have observed (without them being aware) were all pretty much looking for something to eat or in a few cases something to mate with. Bears are always sniffing, rolling logs, and poking their noses into cracks and crevices, behavior I thoght was foraging. Here around the house it is not uncommon to see a fox these days, and most times they are spotted hopping on their hind legs and diving nose first thru the tall grass on the field edges, chasing rats. And I aint never seen a coyote walk past anything edible! They are the most opportunistic feeders around, and most any rabbit in distress call (electronic or manual) under the right circumstance, will bring in every yote on this side of the county for an easy meal!

So I guess difference of opinions, but one point that I brought up and someone else touched on, there is not as many reports submitted of BF eating/foraging as one might suspect for animal that size trying to sustain himself on what is marginal at best forage in many of the purported BF habitats. Gorillas survive on a less than desirable food source, thus they spend up to 18 hours a day either eating or taking short digestive rest periods in order for their system to make room for more. Most film/vid/pics of gorillas show axactly this behaviour.

Bf as reported seem to lead a pretty easy life, and he appears to have alot a free time on his hands to wander around, peek into windows, knock on trees and see generally what humans are up to from time to time. I kinda feel like he would get caught more by folks, grubbing about for groceries, but obviously that's not the case according to the sightings databases. One thought, perhaps he is partially habituated to humans for food, (trash, campsites, dumpsters) and maybe that explains some of the sightings of the creature observing human activity? Probably a pretty good bet?

Just my take.

[Redwolf]

If the animals I have seen were in retreat from activities such as foraging and mating isn't is logical to assume that reports where sasquatch were not eating are due to the same conditions?

We do not know how a sasquatch metabolizes food. Until we capture and study one of these animals, everything is speculation and we can argue our points of view until the cow come home. I personally find it logical to use documented data from ethnobotany and known animals resources (mainly bear) to come to my conclusions.

Redwolf

oh, I did forget that I saw a coyote playing with a mouse in an E. Oregon field. Tossed that puppy up and caught it for quite awhile before taking off with it. It was great entertainment for a couple of tired bowhunters.

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Apr 3 2008, 08:48 AM

[FoxJr]

I concur RedWolf with your logic concerning the nature of various animal's activities, but would you agree, there is an awful lot of reports of BF doing all kinds of things, very few of which seem to be foraging. My point to begin with was that when I do see the above mentioned native animals, until they realize my presence and turn tail and run, and unless they are mating or near a den, thay always seem to be in the pursuit of something to eat. Of course the variables when you throw a bf in the mix are endless, one big one being the possible highly developed senses one might expect in an animal such as a BF? But again, there is no anatomical indicators to suggest that a BF would have senses off the charts. All physical evidence reported, would lead one to assume they would have senses similiar to other known primates, which to my knowledge are about average in the animal kingdom.

This brings up my last point. Where you use ethnobotany, and the known animal resource, the bear. I generally keep my thinking within the realm of primates. Simply, IMO, the BF exhibit no physical characteristics that would warrant classifying them anything other than primates. I realize alot of folks consider them to be carnivorous to various degrees, (some suggest very bear like in diet) but I always had a hard time when I compare the BF to other top tier predators. They just do not match up physically, with what I consider the prototype carnivore, once again I see a monkey not a bear and I see an opportunistic/omnivore, like a chimp as the probable survival technique.

This all brings me back to square one, where I get stuck analytically speaking, because 99.9% (I know about the Japanese snow monkeys who have adapted in a very unique ecosystem, but they originated in the tropics) of unevolved primates , historically and present, all exist solely in equatorial/semi-tropic/rainforest environments. I was always taught because that was the only habitat that would support their nutritional needs and was key to their higher level of evolution and developement.

Now a ways back, a very smart one of these apes picked up a hunk of rock with a honed edge and realized it could be handy for something other than scratching his privates. Thus began the era of tool use/fabrication (not all at once), and eventually a particular group (or two) of these apes, with tools in hand, migrated out of the equatorial rainforests and African savannas, and spread into the deciduous hardwood forests of Europe/Asia and even to the Artic lands of the far north. According to the scientists and physical evidence unearthed, this was all made possible by the use of tools, which were further developed as they ventured forth and are actually used as a historical timeline for dating acheological finds.

How did another monkey get out without no tools? I wish somebody would go ahead and shoot one, and answer some of these puzzles!

[Hairy Man]

I can't for the life of me figure out your point FoxJr.

Yeah, humans make and use complex tool. Chimps make simple tools to aide in food gathering. Are you suggesting bigfoot can't be a real species based on some reasoning that they would have to have tools to survive in the wilds of the U.S.?