Bizarre Stick Formations, Evidence of Yowie? Options

[Redwolf]

This area has high tree breaks and wind was doubtful since trees higher up were not broken. We don't get that much snow here on the coast range of Oregon. In this area 12" at the most.

Big trees need to have a powerful force to break them off. If BFs did this they might be juveniles climbing trees and swinging out to break them off. Maybe the breaks mean nothing other than it's fun to break off trees. Or they don't point any where but simply mean if you walk down this road keep going because be have this area. I really doubt if BFs did this, but I can't think of what else did since other areas along the road were not damaged. Maybe Black bears climb and break off trees.

We just had a couple of the biggest wind storms of the season roll through the coast range causing significant damage to trees and property. It is not uncommon at all. I live in the coast range at 1300 feet and had trees snapped like this during the storm last Dec. Wind can be very picky too, some trees damaged and others protected. Kind of like when a tornado takes out your house and the neighbor house is barely touched.

In regards to snowfall? We do get a lot of snowfall in the Coast Range!!! Do remember the story of James Kim?

I will post more on the wind and snowfall in the Coast range later. Honestly though, the damage looks weather related to me.

Redwolf

[Bitter Monk]

The 180 or 360 twist by itself (meaning no apparent weather damage around it) is always interesting.

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[Redwolf]

http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/narratives/OREGON.htm

Several times each year winds of hurricane force (74 m.p.h. and over) strike the Oregon coast. They sometimes move inland to the western valleys and up the Columbia Gorge. At Portland, gusts with instantaneous speeds of 75 to 80 miles per hour are occasionally observed. Damage is usually confined to power and communication lives, to some crops, and to outdoor signs, and timber. Very rarely does loss of life or major structural damage to buildings result. The few tornadoes reported have been short lived. The prevailing wind direction is influenced by the surrounding terrain. In the Columbia Gorge for example, the prevailing direction of the wind follows the orientation of the gorge at that point. Similarly, in the Willamette Valley prevailing directions are aligned north-south with the valley. The very strong winds, of course, are determined by the directions of the major storm movements. In reviewing the fastest wind on record for each month for a number of Oregon stations it was found that 60 percent of them were from the south or west. Light winds greatly outnumber the strong storms winds, and mountain slopes and other topographic features influence their direction.

http://www.ocs.orst.edu/page_links/climate...gon.html#Table1

For example, Laurel Mountain, Oregon, in the Coast Range at 3590 feet above sea level, averages 110 inches of snow per year.

Now it may be that the area you photographed was from a much lower elevation. Personally, we live at about 1250 feet and east of the summit so we get a anywhere from a few inches to two feet of snow every year. A few years back we had 28 inches of snow followed by an ice storm. That lovely little weather event collapsed our barn. Granted, the barn was old, but it was a still a lot of snow and ice to deal with.

The statement that

We don't get that much snow here on the coast range of Oregon.

is not factual.

Redwolf

[longtabber PE]

The 180 or 360 twist by itself (meaning no apparent weather damage around it) is always interesting.

That would make me sit and wonder. I wouldnt default it to BF but things like that are without a doubt unusual

[Bitter Monk]

I wouldnt default it to BF but things like that are without a doubt unusual.

For the record I don't think we should ever default it to bigfoot.

[georgerm]

We just had a couple of the biggest wind storms of the season roll through the coast range causing significant damage to trees and property. It is not uncommon at all. I live in the coast range at 1300 feet and had trees snapped like this during the storm last Dec. Wind can be very picky too, some trees damaged and others protected. Kind of like when a tornado takes out your house and the neighbor house is barely touched.

In regards to snowfall? We do get a lot of snowfall in the Coast Range!!! Do remember the story of James Kim?

I will post more on the wind and snowfall in the Coast range later. Honestly though, the damage looks weather related to me.

Redwolf

Let me explain. The coast range that I'm referring to are the lowest mountians between the Sixes and Elk Rivers where many BF reports have come from. These low mountains get much less snow than the high peaks between Grants Pass and Agness where Kim was snowed in last winter.

As far as the tree breaks that are on the north side of the mountain where storm winds usually can't reach since storms come from the southwest. I will go check the area out now and see what the unusual storm did this year. The broken trees were probably not BF breaks but some other answer from nature.

Here are some fir tree breaks in a cluster and notice no trees around have been snapped off.

What part of Oregon are you in? I can show you the area of tree breaks that seem common along some remote roads.

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[Bitter Monk]

Looks like that great big one uprooted or snapped and in the process of falling brought down those others (notice the overlay).

[Redwolf]

Perhaps you should have been more specific and stated the area in which you took the photo. Your blanket statement seemed to encompass the entire coast range.

I still believe that the damage in the photo you posted was caused by wind. Of course, that is only my less than humble opinion.


Redwolf

This post has been edited by Redwolf: Jan 21 2008, 08:01 PM

[Flashman]

Winds can be funny behind a ridge, it can blast over the top but tumble over in a vortex like a breaking wave. Hence why if you break your leg near the top of a ridge, and it feels calm around you and there's a nice flat area... the mountain rescue chopper may well refuse to land, instead staying above the ridge line and dropping a long line down and winching you out. Pilot does not want to get slammed into the ground by any vortices or downdraughts on the lee side of the ridge.

[Rounder]

That would make me sit and wonder. I wouldnt default it to BF but things like that are without a doubt unusual

These are not really that unusual. The way a tree breaks has a lot to do with its internal wood structure. Some will break nice and clean, and others will have more spring to them and want to break in this twisting fashion. I wish I could be more specific as to the type of trees, but I just know from gathering a lot of wood, some of them can be a bitch to break. Its usually these tough little trees that you'd have to twist around six time to get them to break. I avoided these whenever possible.

[Bitter Monk]

So are you suggesting these trees just spontaneously twist themselves?

[Rounder]

No, but when they are broken by anything (ie. a clumsy moose) they they don't snap off cleanly, like say a maple, birch or poplar. They break in a twist like you see in that picture. If memory serves, ash will break like that. I suspect a lot of these 'twisted off' reports we hear are just that, certain species (sorry I can't be more specific) just break like that naturally. Next time you're in the woods for a day, try breaking off a few dead trees, you'll see what I mean.

[Bitter Monk]

There are some natural reasons for twisted trees, but those all involve force being applied in a rotational manner. They have nothing to do with the tree itself, and I would be hard pressed to believe that a tree would respond to a straight line force in such a manner.

[Rounder]

Sorry I can't supply a more scientific explanation for you, I just know from scrounging wood for years that some kinds of trees just break like that. You try to break them off, and they twist like that and you've got to spin them around four to six times before they'll break. But don't take my work for it, next time you're in the woods just spend some time breaking off small dead trees, you'll see pretty quickly what I'm talking about.
Oh, I should add, anyone who's cut down trees with a bowsaw or chainsaw knows all about rotational force in a falling tree. I've spun trees nearly 140 degrees that were leaning over water so they'd land on the bank, its all in how you make the cut.

This post has been edited by Rounder: Jan 22 2008, 10:11 AM

[Bitter Monk]

Sorry I can't supply a more scientific explanation for you

That's what it's going to take at this point to convince me otherwise.

you've got to spin them around four to six times before they'll break.

its all in how you make the cut.

My point exactly. You're talking about application of force, which has nothing to do with the nature of the tree, but has everything to do with the end result.

[Rounder]

No, its in the nature of the wood itself, I only brought up the spin-thing because tht's what you have to do to break this type of wood, and the rotational spin thing to demonstrate that trees will spin when you cut them under the right conditions. They're rarely perfectly balanced and will often spin when you drop them, you can use this to your advantage to lay the fallen tree where you want it. And sorry I don't have the scientific evidence to back this up -- I'm not a expert in forestry, but I do have a few years of collecting deadfall so I have some idea how different types of wood break. The twisted deadfall thing is perfectly natural, I've seen it hundreds of times in woods with no BF.

[Bitter Monk]

Until I see evidence to the contrary (that a 360 degree twist like the one I posted can be created by a linear force) we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Rounder]

Ok, but they really look more like 90 degree breaks to me.

[Bitter Monk]

Ok, but they really look more like 90 degree breaks to me.

The photos I posted are twisted 180 and 360 degrees respectively. For the record I've also found trees twisted full round multiple times.

[Rounder]

Ok, if you say so, but I gotta tell you, whatever it is its not BF related -- I wouldn't look twice at those in the woods, I've seen the same thing a million times.

[georgerm]

Ok, if you say so, but I gotta tell you, whatever it is its not BF related -- I wouldn't look twice at those in the woods, I've seen the same thing a million times.

Rounder, what you have said is possible. The type of tree break has much to do with the tree species. There are hundreds of tree species growing in the US, and each has different strengths of wood. You and Bitter Monk may be talking about different species that break in different manners. lName the species.

The trees that I showed are Douglas Firs, and they don't twist when they break. Now this summer, I experimented and tried to break a 3" diameter green Doug Fir. I grabbed it up high, pulled the top down and bent it in a U shape. It didn't even crack but just bent. I then pushed it back and bent it really sharp, and it finally snapped. It was really hard.

The picture that I showed Bitter Monk with broken trees did not happen due to a tree falling. Something broke them and not necessairly BF but something.

The picture with me pointing with my left arm is a mystery break and the other picture is the one that I broke with lots of effort. A healthy Doug Fir does not just snap in the wind.

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[Rounder]

Sorry, I can't identify more than a dozen species off hand, I'm not an expert on trees, but I'm pretty good at knowing what burns well, since that's why I was collecting wood. I can't really tell what's going on in the pictures you provide, they're too far away for any detail. But the breaks that BM shows are nothing new to me -- I saw them every day I was in the woods. I'd go out there with a camera and show you what I mean, but this was in New Brunswick and I'm now on the prairies 2,500 miles away. But I do know that some trees, when dead (I didn't collect green stuff), will break cleanly across -- like poplar and birch -- neither of which was high on my list of preferable wood. Poplar is just crappy wood and birch goes punky really fast if its not split. Maple is excellent wood, and when you break it tends to splinter, but it breaks easily. I burned a limited amount of softwoods such as white/black spruce, but only if they were small, standing dead, and I needed some smaller stuff to get big pieces of hardwood going. But there were other species, ash I know for sure and I think hemlock, that were a bitch to break, mostly because the wood was so springy it wouldn't really break as much as splinter, and you'd have to twist it around four or five times with much effort to get a little stick to break. They were more effort than they were worth, so I never collected them much. Cedar was kind of like that too, it smelled nice but wasn't worth the little heat it gave off to bother with. So the point I'm trying to make is the ratty little trees that twist off like that weren't really worth the effort of harvesting, so I never paid much attention to them, but I did see them all the time. If this is what people are referring to when they talk of twisted off marker trees, I remain unconvinced they have any BF significance at all.

[sassfoot]

Ok, if you say so, but I gotta tell you, whatever it is its not BF related -- I wouldn't look twice at those in the woods, I've seen the same thing a million times.

i find that hard to believe,of all the tree related incidents i believe the twist would be easier to prove as bf related than the others.

[bipedalist]

i find that hard to believe,of all the tree related incidents i believe the twist would be easier to prove as bf related than the others.

It is funny that starting out in a hundreds of acres study area, I collated stick formations, breaks, and the like, then focused on the relevant
topography, springs/streams/rock overhangs/caves/ravines/game trails/sun exposure morning and late afternoon. And only afterward, narrowed a study location down that I think led to a successful "planned" encounter eventually. If you all think these formations are irrelevant, that is fine, it was not in my study area, and in fact led me to be able
to strategize an area successfully. If it could work for me, it should work for others. The key is localization and longevity and not biting off an entire national
park or wilderness area willy-nilly and randomly. I do not believe I have heard from others though who have used this same technique successfully with the formations, however BFRO strategizes along the topography lines.

This post has been edited by bipedalist: Jan 27 2008, 10:38 AM

[truth seeker]

This is just my 2 cents but I don't put much stock in tree breaks most seem to be more likely to have occured by no crypto means.

The thing is though about tree breaks is that even if we do get a good witness accounts of them and physical evidence like foot and hand prints from the area all that shows is that does the behavior it still doesn't change the fact that most of these are probably nonbigfoot related and just wishful thinking by researchers.

[dweller]

Tree breaks and stick formations are two differnet things, in my mind.

TREE BREAKS seem very nebulous to interpretation. I live in SW Oregon, and there are plenty of tree breaks, all the time...

Stick FORMATIONS, are just that...

I have seen one. Tugged at it, messed with it. What was clear is that only sometthing with incredible dexterity could have fashioned such a structure.

That includes humans, but in the situation that I was in, I could not really confirm that humans were involved.

[YowieMan]

Tree breaks and stick formations are two differnet things, in my mind.

TREE BREAKS seem very nebulous to interpretation. I live in SW Oregon, and there are plenty of tree breaks, all the time...

Stick FORMATIONS, are just that...

I have seen one. Tugged at it, messed with it. What was clear is that only sometthing with incredible dexterity could have fashioned such a structure.

That includes humans, but in the situation that I was in, I could not really confirm that humans were involved.

I think that the stick formations are certainly more interesting than the tree breaks which was the focus of this tread when I posted it. Both could quite easily be naturally occuring, though many of these stick formations seem to be too bizarre to be natural, and occur in places that there would be unlikely human activity.

[chronic]

I have read several reports in Australia from Yowie Researchers of bizarre stick formations found in areas known for having Yowie activity. I was interested to know if any similiar formations have been seen in areas noted for Bigfoot/Sasquatch activity.

From the Kiamichi Bigfoot site-

Tee-Pee formations-
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/kiamichibigfoot/photopage2.html


X Formations-
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/kiamichibigfoot/photopage1.html

(the copy is easier to read if you highlight it)

Additional sticks formations-
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/kiamichibigfoot/photopage8.html

[mojo1963]

It's funny, in a way. Autos kill 40,000 US citizens every year and we are nonchalant about them. Hopsitals about the same number and yet very little fear. Bees, snakes and lighting only a few hundred and they are kinda scarey. A few people get mauled and fewer yet killed by wild animals and we are terribly frightened of them. Bigfoot; virtually no known instances of anyone ever seeing 'em let alone being harmed or killed and we're terrified to the point of not going out into the woods for fear of what might happen. I hate to bring up the subject of possibly deadly Higgs-Boson particles or anit-matter for fear we'll run-away screaming like little girls.

And let's not forget the first sign of a doomsday announcing black hole is that you can't see 'em....uh oh..

Just a thought. If a person were actually killed by a bigfoot (assuming they were alone), something tells me the remains wouldn't be found. Just a hunch.

Actually, I read that Teddy Roosevelt reported a likely bigfoot killing in his 1890? book. The story went; two trappers in the Montana wilderness(?) came across an ape like creature, shot at it and missed. It allegedly stalked them for a couple of days, and when the split up, one guy was found dead with a broken neck and claw marks. He noted that the man wasn't eaten as he suspected a bear would likely do. But, I'm not one to know this for sure. I didn't read the book, just second hand information. So, I don't swear by it. Someone may want to correct me.

[nightscream]

It's funny, in a way. Autos kill 40,000 US citizens every year and we are nonchalant about them. Hopsitals about the same number and yet very little fear. Bees, snakes and lighting only a few hundred and they are kinda scarey. A few people get mauled and fewer yet killed by wild animals and we are terribly frightened of them. Bigfoot; virtually no known instances of anyone ever seeing 'em let alone being harmed or killed and we're terrified to the point of not going out into the woods for fear of what might happen. I hate to bring up the subject of possibly deadly Higgs-Boson particles or anit-matter for fear we'll run-away screaming like little girls.

And let's not forget the first sign of a doomsday announcing black hole is that you can't see 'em....uh oh..

Hospitals don't really kill people do they? Isn't it that people that happen to be dying go to hospitals?

When I am driving I at least have the comfort of knowing that I am in control of my own vehicle. I can at least hope to be a good defensive driver and avoid wrecks etc.

If I happen to have a chance encounter with a snake or bee, I can choose to either kill it or escape from it. In both cases the choice is still mine, I am the Alpha.

Lightning is scary enough. A 10 year old boy and his father were shooting hoops in their driveway not far from here when both were struck by lightning. The father survived. The boy did not. When struck , the boy was holding the basketball. I heard that when struck he involuntarily through the basketball several hundred yards. Lightning, though, is not an animal that can smell, hear and see you. Lightning can not feel threatened when something encroaches its home, habitat or offspring. Lightning will not chase you.

The fact is that hundreds of persons go "missing" in wilderness areas such as the PNW every year. Most of these mysteries are never solved.

The fear should be real and healthy. If they exist, and you encounter one within a certain radius, it is the BF's choice as to whether or not you will go unharmed not yours. This realization is heard in the voice of Scott H's friend in their video.

[Crypto kid]

However bizzare and absured the chances of these actualy being made BY a yowie, it may still hold a find in reality. It could be a simple animal trap, or, as other suggested, territory markers. But the are still probably hoaxs.

[Killain]

"Hospitals don't really kill people do they? Isn't it that people that happen to be dying go to hospitals?"

Sir...you have way too much faith in our hospitals. It is conservatively estimated by people who are intimately familiar with the hospital environment, that medical mistakes, kill approximately 100,000 people a year and the number is likely higher.

Nosocomial infections account for a significant number of deaths yearly. These are infections the patients didn't have when they arrived at the hospital.

Our convalescent centers are literally infection breeding centers.

No sir, the hospital is the last place you want to go, unless you absolutely have to.

K

[forestguy]

I know I'm posting in a long-neglected thread, but anyway... I've come across a few tree breaks in my research area. The site is in a currently dry water catchment reserve, and in this part of it the majority of vegetation is chest high grass with occasional stands of quick growing trees (mainly acacias).

I found these breaks along a line of trees all within several hundred metres of each other - all were around 7-8 feet from the ground and all were well off the track, I reached them by breaking trail through the chest high grass.

Here in Queensland I don't have to worry about ice or snow. I'm not ruling out wind as a cause but I think it's unlikely, mainly due to the lack of other damage. In each case it was one branch broken only, the rest of the tree is strong and healthy.

In the pic where I've circled both ends of the break I took the branch down to look at it closer and it was split in half. In the following pic you can see the two halves, they were facing each other together in the crook which would seem unlikely if they were tree blown. The third branch you can see was also leaning there but it appears to be from another tree.

There's limited human activity in the area, and the breaks are out of the reach of any animals that could be found locally that would have the strength to break them (feral pig, deer)

This was the first trip where I actually took pictures so I learnt some lessons - need to frame the pics better, include tape measure etc for reference. I'll also follow up on lontabbers point and check the direction of the breaks etc - from memory most of them pointed towards a stand of trees that border the main path (there were no breaks in that stand).