has anyone tried a bait tent?, i cant believe this isnt already in use somewhere. Options

[chrisandclauida2]

every now and then thru the fog of pain a few brain cells get together and i get an idea.

this idea stems from the many reports of these creatures interacting with and around tents. Literally hundreds of reports, well maybe a hundred, contain info about the big guy approaching tents and touching them moving them and just plain displaying curiosity in regards to them

the reason the big guy approaches tents or sleeping bags could be any number of things. i dont believe the big guy is any smarter than any other non human ape like creatures. because of this i dont think the reason is complex but rather a simple one of behavior that many other animals also display.

many animals see humans as a threat or at the least something they dont understand but because of our size and the lack of understanding they are cautious. take these same humans and put us in a car and we are no longer humans even though we are easily visible inside the car or truck.

a prime example would be the large cats or the African continent. they will walk right up to a truck, even one that is wide open with no top or windows, and jump on the hood and sit down. it is obvious that the same human that was out side the truck is inside but it doesnt matter as we are now the truck and as such not an animal or threat.

the same thing goes for tents and sleeping bags. i think that once we are in these we are gone. out of sight out of mind per say. as such the curiosity of the big guy kicks in and over rides any shyness and he comes in to look at these things on the ground in his wood.

the reports of behaviors that would be actions of a curious individual vary from campers seeing a silhouette of a visitor outside their tent to touching, opening zippers, reaching in side, pushing in the side, moving the tent or bag to the extreme of the osterman story. these behaviors are not unlike many other animals. they are that of curiosity. weather it is a bear sniffing around, a raccoon opening stuff or a squirrel stealing things they are all just that animal feeling safe enough to indulge in their curious impulses. i think the safety they feel from us disappearing is the importiant factor and one we could use.

the bait tent is an idea that seems so simple and obvious that i slap myself that it didn't pop into my head already. it can be as cheap or expensive as you want but it seems like it could be crazy effective. the bait isnt food, although food could be placed inside depending on safety as active bears might make this practice not too smart, the bait is the tent and the lure is the curiosuty that these creatures display when they feel relatively safe.

my thoughts of the design are of a smaller 2 to 4 man tent with small pin hole cameras attached to the inside. i dont think huge megapixel resolution is an issue as our subject would be within a few feet. even low light cameras are cheap now and simple led ir illumination isnt a big deal as the big guy doesnt seem to mind low light when he approaches these tents. i would think 4 small cameras and appropriate monitors would work. i think some of the sets you get at places like Sam's club that has 4 or 6 cameras and a monitor would be excellent. recording devices are easy to set up. you wouldn't need a monitor except to watch from inside and these sets usually have a small monitor with a video out for recording. i would think the monitors should be concealed with blankets or sleeping bags to avoid inside light sources that would effect that safety feeling we are trying to use to our advantage.

i consider things like 2 sided tape pheromone patches and even barbed hooks in strategic places might be useful. ground preparation would be beneficial to captures prints and even short tracks. the same idea could be used in a "circle the wagons" set up where the outside 4 or 6 tents have one camera each facing the out side of the camp with the other tents inside the circle. wires could go to a "command tent" with appropriate features to secure light discipline.

the set up of the camp site would include the cameras and such so as to seem normal if anyone is watching. meaning the acts or raking tent locations to remove rocks easily conceals any print traps and running wires would also be easy. i mention this as some suggest that abnormal things like running wires and setting up camera traps influence where the big guy will go. in the case of one tent every thing would be inside of it anyways so this is mute. i personal dont think the big guy can tell a camera from a pair of glasses but some do so this will ease those fears or concerns.

these tents are items the big guy likes to poke around in, pun always intended, as such i feel it will prove more useful than game cams and other "traps" that arent producing. by taking something we highly suspect doesnt scare the big guy and using it we are researching smarter. after all no one has reported seeing the big guy poke around a game cam, tree stand or blind.


what say you all.

This post has been edited by chrisandclauida2: Oct 19 2007, 12:45 AM

[Minister_of_Info...]

From an armchair guy, this sounds like a decent idea. I will add my thought that a lot of tent activity seems to be based on intimidation or encouraging people to leave the area. I am thinking of a report where a tent was drug about 20 feet into the woods for instance.

As you have obviously considered, the key is to assume that you are under continual observation by BF and so anything unusual would have to be concealed.

I think it might work.

[Bitter Monk]

You might have some luck getting responses from those who have tried it because I know it's been done.

[believerwy]

I don't know about other states, But in Wyoming it is illegal to bait anything, except fish of course..

[StacyInMI]

A few years ago near our original site, a couple of guys placed a tent where one of them, two years previously, had heard interesting vocalizations followed by a large track nearby the next morning. We still refer to that spot as "false camp."

(as an aside, does anyone else label their spots and landmarks? We keep coming up with names for everything... "tree knock camp," "the alleyway," "the point," etc... seems essential to reference specific points easily. But anyway....)

There was no sign of anything coming in to investigate all weekend, and I can't remember if they hung game cams at all. Over the next couple of years we discussed different things to do at the false camp, but got busy doing other things and never really followed through with any of them...we never even camped in our original spot this year. But one thing my son suggested was to take some old jeans, flannel shirt, boots, and a hat, and make a "dummy" to sit in a chair near the (non-burning) fire pit over night, and see if that would pique any interest.

I think the whole idea has potential!

This post has been edited by StacyInMI: Oct 19 2007, 09:12 AM

[Bitter Monk]

(as an aside, does anyone else label their spots and landmarks? We keep coming up with names for everything... "tree knock camp," "the alleyway," "the point," etc... seems essential to reference specific points easily. But anyway....)

You better believe it. It may be a Southern thing but it's a lot more fun to say "go down that trail and turn right at Tater Rock". My stomping grounds had so many names a new visitor would have been forgiven for thinking they were at Rock City.

[Wyomingite]

The idea has merit. If I understand you correctly, chrisandclaudia2, the bait IS the tent/campsite itself rather than the inclusion of typical baitstuff, so that would get around any laws concerning baiting. If it wasn't well off the beaten path, I'd be concerned about vandals if the camp was left for any significant period of time. Unfortunately they seem to show up in the most unlikely places.

BTW, believerwy, it is legal to bait bears in WY. The bait site has to be registered with the G&F, it has to include the hunter's name, address and contact info, and the bait has to be contained in a solid container not more than 8 cubic feet in volume. IIRC, there are limitations on what can be used for bait, as well. So in WY at least, if the tent contained any kind of food and was left unattended, the person setting it up would risk running afoul of the G&F. The presence of cameras in the set up would set off a red flag that this wasn't just an abandoned campsite.

[chrisandclauida2]

yep the bait is the tent. since the big guy seems to be almost curious to a fault they cant help them selves from checking tents out.

i guess you could leave the tent but i figured the night investigations by the big guy while camp is occupied are common enough to just set up camp with the tent when you get there and tear it down when you leave.

the bait tent should be a small distance away from the others or it should be near the thickest vegetation surrounding the camp site to allow that safe feeling we are counting on to draw in the curious sassys.

[JohnCartwright]

I think this is a really good idea. I am a big advocate of researchers trying new techniques.

[chrisandclauida2]

my wife works at a big box chain where she is a manager. i may have access to low cost materials , the tent and security camera set, that i would donate or loan to anyone interested.

i dont want to give this to the bfro as matt for some reason hates me bans me from his site and wont answer my messages. besides his secretiveness would go against my beliefs in peer review and sharing of evidence for duplication.

if i can swing the stuff does anyone have an active area that this could be tested in?

getting the stuff would not be instantaneous as i have to watch for clearance and discontinued items. i have one camera right now i would freely donate. it s day night with l.e.d i.r lights. it doesnt work at a huge distance but the idea is for up close video so ten feet would be perfectly ok in this case.

let me know.
chris

[17x7]

It does sound like a reasonable idea. The problem that I see is that probability is not in your favor. While many reports do include something involving a tent, how many thousands of tents are pitched any given night in areas that could be BF habitat? When you consider how many tents didn’t draw any BFs, it seems one could make a good argument that your odds of success are slim.

Then again, nothing else seems to be working any better.

17x7

[Idaho Jones]

Anyone try this? I also have wanted to try this for years, but no longer live in a good area for it. My thoughts were to use wireless cams and laptops to remotely monitor and digitally record the data. I had heard there is also some curiousity with children, so I thought one could place a broadcasting device with baby sounds inside the tent as an added attraction.

[dogu4]

I think that the reports which entail campers and tents stand out most vividly inour imaginions and have a disproportionally large amount of infuence on our thinking about this. It's sorta like the roadway conundrum; we see BF by the roadway, but we don't actually think they hang out by the roadway. Perhaps we should apply that reasoning to campers' encounters in this case. You don't think that everytime someone reports a strange sensation and hears bipedal footsteps from within their tent that there is an actual BF out there, do you? I think maybe sometimes there are but the ability for people to identify the foot falls of bipedal animals has been fairly well discounted...and addd that to the instances of active imagination and the intrusio of deam states...kinda sketchy as sources go. I've spent a lot of time in the woods in tents (and outside of tents) in what is generally considered great habitat and have never been bothered so why would I think that just setting a tent into even a known habitat would act as some kind of magnet? Really, for every report involving camper's tent being examined in a meaningfull way, one must keep in mind that there are literally millions of tents that are definitely not reportiing being bothered...and we can find no specific reason why one tent and not another. But, if the experiment is to see "if" tents attract BF...that sounds good to me. Then maybe you guys can figure out what specifically is it about tents that attracts 'em. Smell of food? The sight of the tent? Keep records and expect a long wait. I wish it would work because then reseachers would have a tool that works because so far nothing else seems to do that to my knowledge.
I'm not a skeptic, nor have I seen irrefutable evidence with myown senses about BF, but my reasons are based on a personal perspective on the history of field biology.
Never the less, the idea of figuring out how a creature like BF would indeed act and re-act fascinates me and so I don't reject the notion of tent baiting, but I'd prefer to think about what it is possibly doing at its instinctive level. Being just plain curious is a good explaniation but beneath the concept of curious there is something even curiouser.

[Highlaker]

We did try a bait tent about 20 years ago. We did not try the camera tactic. We set up the tent in an area known to have recennt activity. Threw some camping gear around it, and left it there for a month or so before coming back. We found no tracks and nothing was touched or moved. I still think it's a good idea however. You can purchase cheap tents at garage sales and just leave them up off the trail in the mountains somewhere. I have heard so many reports of bigfoot coming around campsites. It seems like it should be effective sooner or later.

[Flashman]

Mebbe it's not so much the campsite with equipment deployed as the camping activities, fires, cooking, wood chopping etc. that attracts attention.

[dogu4]

From one perspective the idea does hold some promise. As an example, bears along beaches have been seen to play around with big floats and kayaks like toys and are curious about 'em when they see 'em. Bears are actually fairly visual so a colorfull shape could attract 'em...and I think most would presume BF is visual, whether he's also a nocturnal hunter as well, or not. Some cheap tents placed conspicuously where where they could be observed at a distance might prove interesting and would be a kind of fun experiment while hiking. Any thing that gets you out in the back country sounds like a great plan and worthy of a little forethought.

[Scooby]

I have espoused my view on another forum similar to this thread. To the bait camp I would add campers. Have two camps close enough to be observed by each other during the day, and pics and vid at night.

I also like the idea of setting a bait camp with campers and placing an observation group up in tree stands or somewhere hidden from obvious view and using scent and visual masking. Also, again, use vid and pics, but throw in a night-vision or heat-viewing device.

[Tnwoods]

Colors.

When I lived in HI I thought it strange that every time we rented a Kayack - it was either Orange or Yellow.

Two colors that sharks see, also thought it was odd that life vest's are all this Orange and or yellow.

Sharks see Yellow and Orange, always thought is was a local way to get rid of us "howlies"

Years later, not convinced I was wrong.....LOL

[wiiawiwb]

Many stories are told of BF preying upon deer as a source of food. Has anyone had success hanging deer liver out to attract BF? It seems hard to believe that a self-respecting sasquatch could ignore a bait tent surrounded by nice fresh deer liver.

[willie red fire]

Mebbe it's not so much the campsite with equipment deployed as the camping activities, fires, cooking, wood chopping etc. that attracts attention.

In addition to your setup.........
A boom box or newer type digital player with a past camp out party on tape or SD card. Some serious snoring also.
couple of hot dogs still on the grill.

The tent and ground will be coated with Fluorescein a UV glow dye. BlackLight and wide angle UV lasers with show where the guy went and easy to spot in the dark. I have enough to make a swimming pool look like a plutonium accident. Non-toxic and fun to play with.

Fluorescien

[BigTex]

I did this last year in one of my research areas that is extremely remote, and on private property. I camp at this one spot a few times a year, and decided to leave my tent, and a chair to see if anything happens, plus I was too lazy that day to haul it out. I hiked in and checked on my camp a few times over the next few weeks, and after around 4 weeks, went back, and the tent was totally ripped and destroyed. The aluminum tent poles were bent and busted up too, which in my mind would eliminate most animals. Could been humans, since the chair was missing, but did I mention this place is remote? I felt pretty creeped out when I saw this. Fast forward about six months, and I found what was left of the chair while hiking, on the same property, and a few miles away. This is the folding, in a bag, typical type chair everyone has for sporting events and camping use.

[willie red fire]

That sounds like what almost happened to me back in my solo days. I had two different incidences happen to me one by myself and one with a girlfriend. Near Salmon, ID in the spring all the campgrounds were closed so we went down a back road and set up next to a small brook. Early in the morning I was awakened by footsteps and heaving breathing. grabbed my buck knife and was waiting for it to jump on the tent. seemed like it circled then left. All I could hear was the brook after a few minutes so I got out and look around. The girlfriend never stirred.

The second time was solo and in the Hells Canyon wilderness, AZ near haigler creek. I was looking for a Sluice Box that was built into the creek using cement as told told by an old timer. Very quite night and was awoken by load growling and could of sworn the tent was pulled. It was a self standing tent and was cockeyed in the morning. I was yelling back at it at it go away bear over and over again. It left and I got out and headed to a rockface and backing in sat down and finished the night in that position. In the morning ther were no tracks of any kind that I noticed. In those days I carried whiskey and was smoking so I was impaired and still thought it was a dream. All I remember was it was loud and I assumed it was a bear cause I was yelling at it as I have done before. Of coarse all NW' ernerns will say "no way", A desert? no frig way. This place was below the rim and a scruby pinon, cedar area and way before I believed a NA APE existed. Heard the tales in BoyScouts was about it. Actually whiskey when pored around where you camp will keep the rattlesnakes away. I heard if snockered they stay away also.

After reading the BFRO report involving tents the big guys seem to like to mess with the single tents vs: many in a camp ground. When a campgrounds gets populated in the spring/summer there are more reports of just the howling.

I can see very heavy and large net spread on the ground under the tent and the tent being the trigger (or a plate with food w/50mg diazpam). sign in English only will say "stay away, TEST AREA", it will unlatch several (4)350lb rock sacks on ropes up the trees using pulleys then attached to the ends of the net. Figure about 1500lb of lift and a bunch of cow bells. If in a cell area then a cell phone that last a week will send a txt-message "got it, come quick" . there are simple interfaces to phones to send a message, we use them for sending remote levels of holding ponds on a daily basis.
That would be my 2cents for a bait tent

[willie red fire]

C&C if you still want to bait a tent, a time and place is being worked on at this time. We have maybe two expendable tents and some camp gear also. Apples, march mellows, hot dogs and anything you can come up with. I plan on setting up one this weekend with food around and female clothing if I can find a female with expendable clothing! I have some other things I'm working on and will talk about them later. Lets say it's 20-30 miles away and a radio link is possible if a repeater is installed at brookpoint or a network connection can be found with 10 miles of the mds radio. Live audio feed will begin when motion is detected in the tent area. I have the radios, antennas, SBC's and working on the power source. The video wont be live but maybe a motion sensed frame every minute.

[MooseMan]

You better believe it. It may be a Southern thing but it's a lot more fun to say "go down that trail and turn right at Tater Rock". My stomping grounds had so many names a new visitor would have been forgiven for thinking they were at Rock City.

Maybe a Southern Canadian thing too! We have Dad's Slough, Sand hill, Chevy hill, Poacher's camp to name a few.

[RB]

Yeah... Joe, Kim and Herman used one in Texas a few years back...

Check out the thread: Hello From Caddo Lake Swamp, We are alive and well out here


[attachment=29457:Bait_tent.jpg]

[911Guy]

This is a very interesting idea. I have never heard of anyone trying this.
But I have heard several stories about Sasquatch checking on tents.
I know someone earlier in the thread was asking about where.

I know in the begining of Dr. Meldrum's book he talks about hearing the foot steps near by.

John Mionczyski has a interesting story about a bigfoot checking his bacon stained tent out.

I think Bobo from CA also has a story about a possible bigfoot encounter where the creature was checking out a supply tent while most everyone was out of the campsite looking for said creature.

I am thinking with several camera's checking the tents both inside and out you may just catch a picture of one.

[willie red fire]

From the BFRO report or summation of their attempt to video monitor a HOT spot this article was written. I truly believe this is 99.9% accurate. why else would field research fail so bad when a known hot spot is monitored?

The BFRO Report on video monitoring

3. Bigfoots are very smart and very shy. They modify their behavior in response to our behavior. The more you try to trick them, the trickier they become in avoiding your tricks and traps. So, if you are trying to get a bigfoot on camera, make sure that your first attempt is your best attempt. Once you flash a bulb or aim a video camera at them, you will never get another chance with the same group of bigfoots. Whether they understand it is a camera or not is a point of considerable debate. Regardless, they have an aversion to things being pointed at them, particularly things that look like weapons or big eyes.

4. Remotely monitored video systems seem promising for getting a sasquatch on film, but they are still crude and heavily reliant on luck. Based on our experience at A&A’s, getting lucky probably means catching a less cautious and more curious juvenile that carelessly wanders in front of the camera. At our experiment site we thought we were seeing evidence that the juvenile was sometimes far away from any supervising adult. One possible reason for bigfoots blocking trails could be as a reminder to juveniles not to wander too close to suspicious items like the cameras that we had placed in their woods.

This would suggest a tent would works well but when they sense trickery they get shy and won't come around. So I suggest senting up a tent with NO cameras for some time and take food out and change things around every week for a month or two. Then as an experienced hunter would do is prepare oneself the day before for no oder including the cameras. set them up and get a BlobSquatch on SD card.

[bipedalist]

It could also suggest aiming ir video cameras with wide angle (such as the old sony super nightshots w/ possible remote control ir spotlight assist at yourself sitting around a camp scene or location with good visibility preferably high ground, especially in an area of prior close approaches.