Skookum cast - Further Questions, Or, some things to ponder... Options

[RayG]

There are a number of reasons I have yet to embrace the 'squatch did it' philosophy of the Skookum cast, but this topic is for some specific things that make me

In his book Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science (page 119), Dr. Meldrum writes:

Eventually, careful comparisons to elk imprints were made at multiple game ranches and zoological parks. These comparisons, combined with consultation by professional game keeper, ruled out elk as a possible candidate for the imprint. The obvious heel imprints and forearm imprint could not be accounted for by the anatomy of an elk. Skeptics opined that the heel imprint was simply the mark of a kneeling elk, without ever examining the cast itself. A wrist of a 650-pound bull elk was obtained by Rick Noll, impressed in soft soil, and cast. Not only did it fail to measure up to the dimensions of the Skookum heel imprint, it was clearly distinct in shape and pattern of hair. The overall orientations of the hair patterns on the Skookum cast were likewise incongruent with those of an elk. This was made quite evident by comparisons to taxidermy museum mounts. And finally, and perhaps most telling, when an elk rises from a repose it must place its hooves directly under its weight in order to stand, leaving tracks in the centerline of its imprint. Yet there are no elk tracks located in the center of the Skookum imprint, only deep and clear elk prints skirting the imprint.

The specific part I found puzzling was this one:

"A wrist of a 650-pound bull elk was obtained by Rick Noll, impressed in soft soil, and cast. Not only did it fail to measure up to the dimensions of the Skookum heel imprint, it was clearly distinct in shape and pattern of hair."

Originally I was only concerned about the size of the elk used, but in reading it over it got me wondering about four things:

a] what part of an elk is considered the wrist?

Here's a picture of a reclining Roosevelt elk (original image found here). I'm no expert on the anatomy of an elk, but I had assumed the joint over the yellow line was a knee and the joint over the red line was a wrist. Is this a correct assumption on my part, or is the knee actually considered the wrist?



b] Since large Roosevelt elk are found in the same geographical area as the Skookum cast (west of the Cascades), and grow larger than 1,000 lbs, why wasn't a larger Roosevelt elk wrist/knee used for experimental purposes?

c] What was the condition and origin of the 650-pound bull elk part?

and

d] Was the bull elk used in the experiment a Roosevelt elk?

Rick, since you've probably got the best insight into the experiment that was conducted, would you mind fielding these curiosities?

RayG

[Hairy Man]

Well, the first question I would ask is: how was the 650 pound weight determined? Was that the dressed out weight or ??

The wrist to me is the yellow line. And as noted by Alton Higgins in his interview last night on "Let's Talk Bigfoot", a larger elk's wrist would still have the same shape, proportions, and hair flow as the one tested.

[Drew]

Was there any determination of the time the elk tracks had been left, vs the time the SKOOKUM was left?

[yowiie]

Was there any determination of the time the elk tracks had been left, vs the time the SKOOKUM was left?

IJust aquestion from Oz.
If these BFRO guys had the intention of leaving food for BF, why didn't they set game cams and cameras to capture any activity. Anyone got any ideas

[RayG]

Well, the first question I would ask is: how was the 650 pound weight determined? Was that the dressed out weight or ??

I was hoping that might be covered by me asking 'What was the condition and origin of the 650-pound bull elk part?', but you've worded it much more precisely.

The wrist to me is the yellow line.

Then what is the part over the red line called, and do elk legs only have ankles, wrists, and shoulders? No elbows or knees?

And as noted by Alton Higgins in his interview last night on "Let's Talk Bigfoot", a larger elk's wrist would still have the same shape, proportions, and hair flow as the one tested.

In other words, they would be the same size. So 1,000 lb elk, 650 lb elk, and 300 lb elk all have the same size legs?

RayG

[Hairy Man]

Oh by condition I thought you were asking how decomposed the part was!

You are right about the terms! I'm confusing myself now. I should have said that the yellow line is the elbow (knee?) and the red line is a wrist (ankle?). (I going to assuming, probably wrongly, that the front of the animal would use our arm terminology and the back end our leg terminology??).

You probably should listen to Alton's explaining than counting on me to repeat it, cause although it made sense to me then, I'm having a hard time articulating it. But essentially, the shape of bone and it's hair flow won't change due to size...an elk knee is an elk knee, just like human elbows are elbows. Some may have more fat or muscle around them, but the shape of the bone won't change. So...if I'm getting this right...the shape of the bone in the Skookum heel doesn't match, at all, the shape of an elk knee/elbow, nor does the hair flow. I do believe Meldrum's stated the size of the elk bone wasn't even close, and I think that's where you are going with your question. If it was a bigger elk, would the size be closer to the Skookum heel, etc.. But from what I understand, they are saying that size doesn't matter...the shape is no where close.

[bipto]

IJust aquestion from Oz.
If these BFRO guys had the intention of leaving food for BF, why didn't they set game cams and cameras to capture any activity. Anyone got any ideas

I may be getting this wrong, so anyone who wants can chime in here, but this particular bait pile was just one of many. It was one tactic in a larger number that were deployed during that expedition. In fact, it may even have been kind of an afterthought, but I may be making that up.

[Bitter Monk]

The weight shouldn't matter because the anatomy and hair flow pattern should still be similar if not the same (albeit it to a different scale).

[LAL]

IJust aquestion from Oz.
If these BFRO guys had the intention of leaving food for BF, why didn't they set game cams and cameras to capture any activity. Anyone got any ideas

They did. The cameras shut down due to excess moisture. It wasn't possible to have a camera at every bait station.


The field notes are here:

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/pnw_newsletter003...alExpedMain.htm

[bipto]

That's the link I wanted...