Your opinions on twist-offs please Options

[wvbig]

Hi,
What do you all think about twist-offs? Bigfoot related or something else? I'm talking about solitary ones in the middle of the woods.

[colstonewall1]

Hi,
What do you all think about twist-offs? Bigfoot related or something else? I'm talking about solitary ones in the middle of the woods.

I hope I'm not insulting anyone here, that's not my intent. But, I have never equated the two, I don't see why anyone would. What evidence (not proof) is there that these are caused by anything other than nature doing it's thing? I don't recall any reports of eyewitness seeing a B/F twisting a limb, not that I've come close to seeing every report.

Not to mention someone would need to prove to me they exist. Some days Im just not sure, can't help it. Certain days I'm relatively sure I think they exist, other days, well . . .

[DPowles]

The only reason i could think a bigfoot would twist branches is for marking its territory maybe? Or maybe for some sort of trail?

[bipto]

I've heard some interesting stories that suggest bigfoot, and I know of one case where I think hair was collected on a fresh twist, but IMO, this is another naturally occurring event many mistakenly attribute to bigfoot.

[the evilist sere...]

*lol* I read this as relating to Patterson's invention of the "twist-off," as in like the bread plastic "securer" ... I think they're great! *s*

[Hairy Man]

I love it when my beer has a twist-off cap. Saves the wear on my teeth.

[Mystical Hominid]

[damndirtyape]

FFT

Most natural twists occur right handed (northern hemisphere?) and at the boundary of a type stand or timberline where more stress maybe placed on the individual tree. The natural twists might be assisted from wind moving branches like a propeller but genes* probably also come into play since natural twists continue in a repetitive one direction spiral. Some trees can take the twisting motion and continue to grow and you can find these giants all twisted up but not broke 10's of feet tall. You may only notice the dead ones though at first since they usually have no bark on them and are snags or down. Ones that have twisted or are twisting naturally and continue to live are harder to discover since the bark is still on it and living branches hide deformities such as this.

I think for Bigfoot we are talking about the alleged hand height, semi circular twist and then break the damn thing off stuff.

Researchers should document the types of trees, their location (altitude, placement with others of same species, geology, etc.), whether they are twisted right or left handed, diameters, height above ground, density of twisted to untwisted, ratio of unbroken twists to broken in the area, patterns with multiple twists. A map can be quickly drawn up so that monitoring the site over time might yield valuable information.

Breaks can be related or separate. Breaks with no twist can be caused by freezing and wind as well as a snow pack not quite covering the whole tree and an avalanche or strong wind rushing over and breaking the tops off.

If someone has recorded all of this, good for them. They should share it with their local forest service office and I would be interested in the data as well.

* Unknown if only the northern hemisphere propagates right handed twisting. In any given species containing twists (NA) only <10% are left handed. This could mean that the genes can be activated by the environment.

[micahn]

The only reason i could think a bigfoot would twist branches is for marking its territory maybe? Or maybe for some sort of trail?

If they are Bigfoot related I would say them are the reasons for them.
Personally I have seen a few over my years but every time it was easy to see it was just nature doing it's thing.

FFT

Most natural twists occur right handed (northern hemisphere?) and at the boundary of a type stand or timberline where more stress maybe placed on the individual tree. The natural twists might be assisted from wind moving branches like a propeller but genes* probably also come into play since natural twists continue in a repetitive one direction spiral. Some trees can take the twisting motion and continue to grow and you can find these giants all twisted up but not broke 10's of feet tall. You may only notice the dead ones though at first since they usually have no bark on them and are snags or down. Ones that have twisted or are twisting naturally and continue to live are harder to discover since the bark is still on it and living branches hide deformities such as this.

I think for Bigfoot we are talking about the alleged hand height, semi circular twist and then break the damn thing off stuff.

Researchers should document the types of trees, their location (altitude, placement with others of same species, geology, etc.), whether they are twisted right or left handed, diameters, height above ground, density of twisted to untwisted, ratio of unbroken twists to broken in the area, patterns with multiple twists. A map can be quickly drawn up so that monitoring the site over time might yield valuable information.

Breaks can be related or separate. Breaks with no twist can be caused by freezing and wind as well as a snow pack not quite covering the whole tree and an avalanche or strong wind rushing over and breaking the tops off.

If someone has recorded all of this, good for them. They should share it with their local forest service office and I would be interested in the data as well.

* Unknown if only the northern hemisphere propagates right handed twisting. In any given species containing twists (NA) only <10% are left handed. This could mean that the genes can be activated by the environment.

Well a lot of people do not know that toilets when they flush turn right hand or clock wise north of the equator. But go south of it and they turn left hand or counter clock wise. That is the plumber coming out of me lol.
Anyway wind for the most part follows the same rules as water.

[17x7]

Personally I have seen a few over my years but every time it was easy to see it was just nature doing it's thing.

I don't know if it is BF or not. Haven't seen any trees getting twisted off. The problem I have is that I have a hard time figuring out what PART of nature it is "doing it's thing" that causes the twisted off trees I see so regularly.

While I understand snow breaks and wind damage can and does break trees, the twists seem unusual to me. I have seen fir saplings twisted off (or nearly so) at a height of 6-7 ft where the tree trunk is 2-3 inches in diameter. The tree looks to have been twisted beyond 360 degrees while the rest of the tree is completely unharmed. It seems to me wind that would have done that kind of damage should have affected other parts of the tree. Also, the affected sapling is often surrounded by other completely unaffected trees that should have either protected the one tree, or at least be damaged also by whatever force of nature damaged the single tree.

I have a hard time visualizing snow falling/passing in such a manner as to have twisted the tree at a given point only and sustaining that movement long enough to have twisted the tree 360 degrees or more. And doing all that without damaging surrounding trees. Not that it couldn't happen, but as a regular occurance?

I don't know what causes all the tree twists. I'm sure that wind and snow do cause some, but sometimes it makes just as much sense that something is twisting those trees. I don't think it's chipmunks.

17x7

[wvbig]

Yes. It's easy to say something is nature just doing its thing & leave it at that. But even things in nature occur through some sort of process. Wind, snow, etc...
Deer, Elk, & Caribou can cause twig twists when they rub their antlers on tree branches. But nothing big. In areas with a solitary large twist-off, I can think of no other explanation except by some sort of animal. And bears paws aren't designed to do anything like that. It seems to me it would require an opposable thumb.
If they are caused by Bigfoot, I agree that they are done as some sort of boundary marker. Either for the benefit of other Bigfoot in the area or us to say "stay away"

This post has been edited by wvbig: Jun 9 2007, 07:33 AM

[wvbig]

I've heard some interesting stories that suggest bigfoot, and I know of one case where I think hair was collected on a fresh twist, but IMO, this is another naturally occurring event many mistakenly attribute to bigfoot.

Dr. Fahrenbach has two hair samples collected from seperate twist-offs on the same day. One was black & the other reddish brown. There were also sighting reports of two Bigfoots, those two colors, in that area, on the same day.

This post has been edited by wvbig: Jun 9 2007, 07:50 AM

[bipto]

Yeah, that's why of all the tree-related observations, this is the kind I think is the best investigated. Note that when I say "investigate" I don't mean taking pictures of them and posting them over the caption "bigfoot evidence". One has to both rule out a more mundane explanation and find some some evidence that ties the twist to large hairy hands.

[PsychedelicShroo...]

my opinion has been mirrored here, already but I shall state it, regardless. There is no evidence linking correlation to any branch breaking activity or twisting with Bigfoot. Although I have no doubts about the existence of Bigfoot, I find myself questioning many things that are attributed to this creature. I am finding that wishful thinking is probably the most common phenomenon that can be attributed to Bigfoot, however indirectly.

This post has been edited by PsychedelicShroom: Jun 9 2007, 01:39 PM

[bipto]

I am finding that wishful thinking is probably the most common phenomenon that can be attributed to Bigfoot, however indirectly.

That's a good line.

[GrandCherokee]

The DDA wrote:

If someone has recorded all of this, good for them. They should share it with their local forest service office and I would be interested in the data as well.

So do you believe that a number of tree twists are ascribed to sasquatch??
If so...why??


The Big Pumpkin, Bipto wrote:

One has to both rule out a more mundane explanation and find some some evidence that ties the twist to large hairy hands.

Wise words that have not only to do with this, but also for..wood knocking...vocalizations...nests...whatever. Something sadly lacking!

This post has been edited by GrandCherokee: Jun 9 2007, 11:28 PM

[PsychedelicShroo...]

GC, weren't you one of the people who successfully debunked many of the recorded "screams" as being coyotes? Good show, btw.

This post has been edited by PsychedelicShroom: Jun 10 2007, 01:03 AM

[eldonkey]

I have seen several twist offs that seem to have been caused naturally....

[Bitter Monk]

I've seen a ton of twisted and broken trees that I think could easily be attributed to nature. I've seen much of this often attributed as being related to the sasquatch, with little or no evidence to support it. Yet I've also seen a fire break where something had broken off three pine branches about eight feet off the ground on the northern side of the break. None of the hardwood branches were damaged, but each of the pines had a limb broken at relatively the same height, in such a manner that they dangled down over the trail. It doesn't mean that sasquatch did it, but it was enough to get my attention.

I think if or when the sasquatch is ever proven to be a real animal it will eventually be discovered that they do indeed mark their territory. Whether or not those markers have anything at all to do with the alleged twists and what not or whether they prove to be something entirely different will remain to be seen.

[mike2k1]

I've seen a ton of twisted and broken trees that I think could easily be attributed to nature. I've seen much of this often attributed as being related to the sasquatch, with little or no evidence to support it. Yet I've also seen a fire break where something had broken off three pine branches about eight feet off the ground on the northern side of the break. None of the hardwood branches were damaged, but each of the pines had a limb broken at relatively the same height, in such a manner that they dangled down over the trail. It doesn't mean that sasquatch did it, but it was enough to get my attention.

I think if or when the sasquatch is ever proven to be a real animal it will eventually be discovered that they do indeed mark their territory. Whether or not those markers have anything at all to do with the alleged twists and what not or whether they prove to be something entirely different will remain to be seen.

I would agree with that also.

This post has been edited by mike2k1: Jun 10 2007, 10:31 AM

[slewfoot]

Wouldn't it be possible that sasquatch mark their territories by spraying urine on these trees also?

[bipto]

I'm going to guess that anything other primates do, these things could do.

[Hairy Man]

I think it helps also to define what people mean by "twist offs". To me, a twist off is when the top of a tree if broken, twisted, and left hanging. A break is when the top of a tree (or part of a tree) is broken, but not twisted, and may or may not be still attached.

Now this isn't a picture of a twist off, but why I think that bigfoot MAY break trees. This is from Lake Tahoe. We were camped a little ways from this tree, had been past it just before settling in at the camp, call blasted, heard a series of loud screams, then a loud tree breaking sound. The next morning, we found this. That broken tree is pushed around the other tree. Since this was July, I can't imagine anyone suggesting that weather did it. I'm not saying a bigfoot did it, as we didn't see it done, but there were no tire tracks or other damage to the trees (like if someone had used a chain).

[SquatchCommando]

I'm going to guess that anything other primates do, these things could do.

I am going to intergect on this, since actually seeing a Sas break off a tree(not twist) Ill tell you why they do it, to scare the crap out of anything else in the woods that they don't like, know how I know, cause it scared the crap out of me....and i don't scare.


Most twist may or may not be a Sas, some are not are not I am sure I would guess but I have no proof, many many tree breaks are, , Of course not seeing it happen would leave you only to suspect, but from what Hairyman has said, about that pic and such I would bet that night a Sas knocked it down,something really big did it, two things in the woods, that can do that a Sas and a Brown Bear leaning on it, I doubt Hairyman was call blasting bear sounds and it was moved some after falling it sounds like to me(am I reading it right?)


It screamed and then the tree crashed, The one I saw roared and knocked a tree down. A possible pattern. I Stared at mine trying to see its face, You are never never to try to stare down and ape,to it, I challenged it it yelled a roared and knocked a tree down, Hairyman and Ol' RB out blasting calls probably challengeing Ol' Sas and Sas again yells and knocks a tree down.


(Harryman be careful, one day you will call blast and a Sas will come Delimb poor RB and carry you off like Fay Ray)




Like Bipto stated if a ape does it Sas can probably do it, and gorillas and Orangutans have tore down small trees

This post has been edited by SquatchCommando: Jun 11 2007, 03:09 AM

[dragonridge]

My opinion is that tree breaks or twists are done to make a large crack or snap sound to deter you from advancing on them or their area, a scare tactic.

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[dragonridge]

Sorry I got a blirb saying I couldn't post photos on this link yet,but here it is ....with out an explantion......so
This pic is a 11 ft Gerry Oak tree I found on a rock bluff over hanging a road below . I checked for any trees around or beside ,or rotten on the ground that could hit it...nothing.The tree appears to twist to the left and towards you ,and is still alive. About 100ft in the woods behind it I found some large"x"'s and small one, large bower,small bower that is pinned down by other branches from other types of trees that are not in the immedate area.
C Dosen

[DevouredbyVermn]

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I dont recall it. In Dr. Meldrums book he mentions a few reports of trees being pushed over in the direction of the witness. A warning I'd imagine. But, I must say, until I've seen it done myself, or someone who's opinion I trust says they saw it happen, then I have to remain dubious.

[Hairy Man]

Here is a witness report that describes a break going towards the witness. The witness is SquatchCommando here on the BFF.

[mike2k1]

I don't know what did this:

July 2005, My field partner and myself were witness to some very intense, close range vocals(150-200 yards). Very dense, swamp vegetation. We never saw what made the vocals, because as we tried to circle in to the source of the sound, something large crashed through the undergrowth, away from us. We found broken limbs, ect, but no good tracks.The ground had about an inch layer of water and the ground that didn't was spongey and wasn't taking good tracks. We don't know to this day what it was. The next week, we went to the same spot, hoping to get similiar results. The part of the trail we were standing on the week before, had 2 trees about 8 ft tall bent over in an arch(pretty much where Steve and I were standing). The top of the trees were pinned to the ground using logs. There was also a log placed in a crook of 2 trees growing together. the log was pointing toward the direction I had headed, trying to circle the source of the vocal. The only tracks in this area were partials and undeterminable . These items were not here the before, we searched the site very thoroughly and made no observations of these structures.

This is th log in the crook of the tree, you can see the stump it came from.



This is one pin. There were no storms in this area at the time we were there to the time we came back(approx. week).



This is the second pin. The light gray limb is the top of the live tree(leaves had been removed on this one) and the darker limb pinned it to the ground.



Although, I cannot attribute these to sasquatch, they are extremely interesting and given the short time space they were made in, plus no storms, they are interesting and we have not been able to explain them.

This post has been edited by mike2k1: Jun 11 2007, 02:59 PM

[manofthesea]

Not an expert here, just chased by one thirty years ago. It sounded like Paul Bunyan tearing through the forest at high speed. We could hear trees snapping at least a mile away and getting nearer rapidly. He could snap a four inch trunk with a twist of the wrist, I believe. [looking at the picture of a twisted tree] He seemed to know where we were from at least a mile away, we being on the top of a hill and him being down in the valley by the freeway. His howl/yell seemed to be directed directly to me and my friend.

[Hairy Man]

Oooooo...Mike! Very interesting. I had a similar experience near where we ended up finding a "nest". On a couple of occasions, the next day after we had call blasted the night before, a tree near where we had been would end up snapped. We found a print near one of those trees (as well as by the nest).

[SquatchCommando]

Displays in powerful animals I think are often not ingrained in them to impress other speces but ingrained to prevent them fom whiping each other to death two male Sas or gorillas fight win lose or drawfighting another male would result in injuries to both parties so maybe the male that snaps off the biggest tree or limb is the stud and gets the territory or the lovley ladies.

Also Silverback gorillas, and Sas if he is not a loner like orangutans, keep order in the group, females bickering and young males acting the fool, somtimes he will smash trees and shoots instead of smashing the "offending" gorillas, which is a good thing, no way for a gorilla to just tap something.

This post has been edited by SquatchCommando: Jun 11 2007, 06:28 PM

[dogu4]

If you think about it, that behavior is quite evident in equivalent human social interactions too Though our symbolism typically tends to be a lot more abstract, we're quite capable of getting the obvious message; thus underscoring the wisdom of the ages: kill a chicken and scare the monkeys.