I was thinkin the other day...., Rock throw Finger prints??? Options

[P.J.]

From what I've read on the forum, rock (and stick) throwing is fairly common (Correct?)

Well I was thinking the other day....and I was wondering if anyone's ever brought back some of the objects thrown and tried getting finger prints off of them (or even just checking to see if there's a giant muddy BF hand print or something)

[Sac-squatch]

HAHA, The reason no one answered this thread is one of two reasons.
1. They don't believe BF throws rocks (i fall in this category)
2. The people that do believe it, are afraid to check for fingerprints because they know deep in there hearts that Reason #1 is true.

[Yetifan]

Actually, while I do think a lot of the alleged rock throwing incidents are dubious, I think, basically, it's a great idea if someone clearly
sees an object thrown and then immediately bags it (bring those CSI gloves, kids). This, assuming that, just prior, an expedition leader hasn't mysteriously
disappeared.

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Nov 27 2007, 12:22 PM

[Hominid,WA]

HAHA, The reason no one answered this thread is one of two reasons.
1. They don't believe BF throws rocks (i fall in this category)
2. The people that do believe it, are afraid to check for fingerprints because they know deep in there hearts that Reason #1 is true.

Sac,

Curious to hear why you don't think they're rock throwers?

[longtabber PE]

Personally, I have never bought into this alleged rock throwing or wood knocking to any degree.

Nothing scientific- just an observation.

I dont recall and large volume of accounts where a BF was actually seen throwing a rock or knocking on wood. ( the difference between associating these things with BF rather than him actually doing it)

Then, look at the reported size of these thrown objects ( specifically referring to the wood and rock shown on MQ)- they look like they fit a human hand better.

Now, if these rocks were the size of basketballs- I'd give it a second look

[StacyInMI]

Somewhere there's a thread here discussing this, and if I remember right the conclusion was that it could be done in certain instances, and I think there was a how-to in there somewhere as well. A quick search didn't net me anything, but it's here somewhere if someone has the time and patience to look!

[Sac-squatch]

Sac,

Curious to hear why you don't think they're rock throwers?

1. For an animal that tries to be so elusive, it would seem to be counter-productive.
2. I see no real evidence that they do.
FYI. For the people that believe they are rock throwers, they should bring riot shields to the field and follow the rocks.

[Hominid,WA]

Good points. Do you think there is any reason to believe that a primate such as this would use rock throwing as a means to intimidate a person out of a particular area?

[Yetifan]

Hominid WA wrote:

Do you think there is any reason to believe that a primate such as this would use rock throwing as a means to intimidate a person out of a particular area?

Hasn't it been documented that chimps and/or gorillas have been witnessed chucking stones?

[Hominid,WA]

Indeed, it has. When it comes to Sasquatch, I don't completely believe it's out of the realm of possibilities.

[Sac-squatch]

Good points. Do you think there is any reason to believe that a primate such as this would use rock throwing as a means to intimidate a person out of a particular area?

Perhaps. I just am not too sure if there is any good reason to attribute rock throwing as known behavior of a Sas. Not to say he/she can't throw rocks, just that I don't think they do. I will be the first to eat crow, if I end up being wrong. That goes with wood knocking and tree twists as well.

[longtabber PE]

Has he ever actually hit anybody with one?

[RogerKni]

IF "unknown animal" DNA evidence can be picked up within (say) six months from fingerprints left on trees, as the reference below seems to indicate, that would be a source of evidence that would validate (some) tree breaks. It would also give us an indication of the type of tree breaks that are likely BF-related (e.g., "twists," and also perhaps certain patterns of damage, such as a series of 9-foot high limbs being broken). And it would also, in the process, validate BF him/herself!

Meantime, since strange tree breaks give a clue as to where BF DNA might be collected (and without any damage or even trauma to the animal!), I think it is a topic that should be on researchers' front burner. BF research needs to try doing something different, as many astute observers have noted. Here is “something different” that is inexpensive, objective, and has breakthrough-potential. I.e., it not only would make a real impact on scientific opinion, but would open up a new avenue for lots of investigators to collect lots of data and develop a profile of high-potential tree-damage patterns, and from that even a picture of BF wanderings in various areas.

All a dedicated researcher or (preferably) organization has to do is have the nerve to contact the technique’s inventors and make arrangements to start sending them suspect DNA swabs for analysis. The inventors might go along with this (i.e., with doing the analysis for free) if they were “sold” on the fantastic publicity benefit their technique would garner if it turned out to be the key that unlocked the door to The Missing Link.

Here’s info. on the article describing the technique (with an updated URL):
“DNA extractable from fingerprints”
By Charles Choi UPI Science News
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0307/175.htm

Here is contact info. for the inventor, or the spokesperson for the inventing team:
Maria Viaznikova
University of Ottawa Heart Institute
40 Ruskin Street
Ottawa, ON
K1Y 4W7

Telephone: + 1 613 761-5000
Facsimile: + 1 613 761-5323
webmaster@ottawaheart.ca

Also, a Nov. 2003 news item has described new techniques using chemical sprays that enable fingerprints to be made visible on wood and rocks. This could help clarify cases involving twisted-trees, and rock-throwing, and rock-stacking. In particular, it would give field investigators a clue as to whether a tree contained BF prints to take a swab of for DNA analysis, so they wouldn’t be making stabs in the dark. They’d have a much higher likelihood of sending non-dud swabs to the analysts in Ottawa. It’s: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s998859.htm

[jasonch1112]

I do not see how this would be beneficial in the least. We have found hair, blood, and even tissue. All of the results have been inconclusive because they cannot be matched to any known animal. Though inconclusive they cannot be dismissed. I cannot see fingerprints giving us anything that is more useful than what we already have. Human fingerprints show such variation I doubt fingerprints from a thrown rock could be adequately shown to be not of human origin. Seems to me to be just another way to collect evidence for people to shoot down. I can't help but think that such evidence would just be construed as us grasping for straws to prove that a non-existant animal does exist.

[Scooby]

Actually, while I do think a lot of the alleged rock throwing incidents are dubious, I think, basically, it's a great idea if someone clearly
sees an object thrown and then immediately bags it (bring those CSI gloves, kids). This, assuming that, just prior, an expedition leader hasn't mysteriously
disappeared.

I would think that would be the best time for it to be tested.

[truth seeker]

I think it's very probable that bigfoot throws rocks given that both chimps and gorillas do and believe this like every other kind of incident needs to be taken on a case by case basis.

[jasonch1112]

If the experts are correct about BF not having an opposable thumb, it seems they would have a hard time picking up a rock. But if they did manage to, I bet with that shaped hand and thier muscles, they could throw one pretty darn hard!

[911Guy]

I have heard several stories of rocks, branches and pine cones being thrown at people.

I don't know what North American animal could be gripping and throwing items. Not a Bear, not a Mountain Lion, maybe a crow or squirrel could drop something on you but that is not how the story went.

As for fingerprinting. I know here at my agency people are always asking us to "fingerprint" the rock that broke a window or whatever. This agency will tell you it is way too expensive for a investigation of that kind.

Now Sasquatch it may be worth the money to attempt to extract a fingerprint if the rock or item could be holding one but I really think it very unlikely and more than that, I don't have the money to pay the lab cost, no matter how badly I would like to see this mystery solved. Do you?

[ganglian]

Does anyone know where the first examples of squatchy doing rock throwing ever showed itself? Just curious.

[Texas Bigfoot]

Has he ever actually hit anybody with one?

Just a Mascot, but that was on purpose.

[nightscream]

Does anyone know where the first examples of squatchy doing rock throwing ever showed itself? Just curious.

What about the Ape Canyon incident? If I remember weren't they basically besieged with an onslaught of rocks hitting the roof of the cabin? It was pretty well established in that incident, but that being said I cannot recall any incidents or sightings where anyone actually claimed to witness one in the act of throwing. They didn't "see" any actually throw any rocks in the Ape Canyon thing if I'm not mistaken - but the chain of events pretty much leads one to conclude that the bf creatures were doing the throwing. If you dismiss the rock throwing as questionable you are saying the entire report is questionable which I guess would be another subject altogether.

[Violet]

As for fingerprinting. I know here at my agency people are always asking us to "fingerprint" the rock that broke a window or whatever. This agency will tell you it is way too expensive for a investigation of that kind.

Now Sasquatch it may be worth the money to attempt to extract a fingerprint if the rock or item could be holding one but I really think it very unlikely and more than that, I don't have the money to pay the lab cost, no matter how badly I would like to see this mystery solved. Do you?

Well, it is true that in a criminal case, fingerprints need to be lifted by professionals in a lab setting.

However, if you want to lift prints yourself from porous material (wood, etc) it is quite simple and inexpensive to fume them. All you need is some superglue, a coffee cup warmer, a box, some aluminum foil and a well ventilated area.

Here is how home fingerprint fuming can be done:
http://onin.com/fp/cyanoho.html

[bipedalist]

Heck if you can fume a whole car, you out to be able to do a few sticks or rocks. Good referencing Violet, this will add to the ability to enhance the possibility of
visible latent prints that something can be gleaned from.

[ganglian]

HAHA, The reason no one answered this thread is one of two reasons.
1. They don't believe BF throws rocks (i fall in this category)
2. The people that do believe it, are afraid to check for fingerprints because they know deep in there hearts that Reason #1 is true.

Or they might just be a little concerned as to why something is throwing rocks at them. But personally I've never experienced rock throwing either. Don't have any particular reason is doubt or believe in it.

[jimf]

http://www.sasquatchonline.com/content/view/80/29/

[Drew]

Why would the largest beast in the woods need to throw rocks at people?

To Scare people away? He could do that just by appearing, unless he has some intelligence that tells him that humans are unpredictable and liable to shoot back, in which case lobbing rocks isn't such a good idea either.

Unless maybe he has a sixth sense that tells him to only throw rocks at people it 'senses' will not mobilize and come after him.

The only reason I could see for a Sas to lob rocks, would be to hit people with them (a long range assault in other words), and since there aren't too many reports of that, I'd guess it isn't a Sas or he is the crappiest aim in History, even bad aimers normally hit something eventually.

[RogerKni]

Bindernagel, in North America's Great Ape, pp. 201-02, describes the stone-throwing behavior of chimps as aggression-displays and speculates that Sas stone-throwing is similar. See also "Stone throwing" in his index for more discussion of this phenomenon.

This post has been edited by RogerKni: Jul 9 2008, 01:21 PM

[RedRatSnake]

Hi

This thread is getting all out of hand and off track, It is TOSS rocks not THROW them, BF gently tosses rocks at people to get there attention ( hay look i am over here human) Throwing is for hitting, -------- Let's recap ---------- Toss is friendly Throw is Aggression


Thank you for your time
Peace
Tim

[Violet]

Heck if you can fume a whole car, you out to be able to do a few sticks or rocks. Good referencing Violet, this will add to the ability to enhance the possibility of
visible latent prints that something can be gleaned from.

You're welcome. I hope it helps!

You can fume all kinds of things. Even skin.....for example, say you find the leftovers of an animal or some bait food that you suspect a BF was munching on. You could fume a bone, for example, to see if there are prints- as long as there is some kind of reasonably flat surface where a print could reside. I imagine that you could tell BF prints apart from human because they would be GINORMOUS.

Heck, it's worth a shot, even if only to rule out the process as useless. Keep in mind, the fuming process will render the object permanently altered.

This post has been edited by Violet: Jul 9 2008, 05:10 PM

[Violet]

If someone is feeling spendy, you can get a pro forensics fuming kit for under $200: http://www.executiveforensics.com/systems.htm

[Teresa]

Hi

This thread is getting all out of hand and off track, It is TOSS rocks not THROW them, BF gently tosses rocks at people to get there attention ( hay look i am over here human) Throwing is for hitting, -------- Let's recap ---------- Toss is friendly Throw is Aggression


Thank you for your time
Peace
Tim

At least he's <allegedly> tossing/throwing rocks and not his own poo like monkeys!

[RedRatSnake]

At least he's <allegedly> tossing/throwing rocks and not his own poo like monkeys!

Hi


I always laugh at that Here is a link so Folks know what it is about

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...50&start=50

Peace
Tim

[Teresa]

I had forgotten about that Tim.