40th Anniversary International Bigfoot Symposium..., Arcata, CA Options

[FredSneakers/Dav...]

Wow, the ticket price drop is truely wonderful. I will most certainly be going if I can get the tickets. I had my doubts about being able to pay for the 200+ tickets, but really wanted to go, so this is all very exciting!

[Paul1968UK]

In response to your last reply: As I tried to convey in my "last reply", my discrepancies are such that I wondered why my post was "singled out" to be "merged" and or "bumped" with another post by oregonfooter.

Stop complaining Lonewolf - you are getting free advertising here on bigfootforums.com for the symposium. A polite 'thank you' would be more appropriate than the whining you have been doing lately.

[LoneWolf]

Symposium reminder,
The cut off date for tickets to be purchased is September 15th, 2007!

[manofscience]

40th Anniversary Cancelled!!

Looks like the 40th Anniversary Symposium is having difficulties....

from the website
http://www.sasquatchresearch.net/index.html

As of today the event has been officially cancelled due to lack of support from the BigFoot Community. But after discussions with a few fellow BigFooter's it was suggested to give an "extension date" to allow the BigFoot community a
final chance to support what we set out to accomplish by holding the event which was to honor Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin on the 40th Anniversary of their historical achievement. So with hesitation we will keep accepting ticket puchases from today Saturday September 1st, 2007 to Monday September 3rd, 2007 11pm PST - If we reach 350 ticket purchases then the Symposium will be reinstated.

[peregrine]

I don't wish them harm, but that "group" has always struck me as suffering from self-destructive tendencies.

For example, they still maintain a link to Lloyd Pye. Grendel Films is prominently featured, promoting MK Davis and his "Patty is a human, not a bigfoot" ideas. Some craziness called The New Being Project is also there, along with a number of other rather "odd" (in my opinion) product links.

Maybe the organizers should have thought to present a more conservative image to attract mainstream interest and that of others intrigued by some aspect of the bigfoot phenomenon?

[tugboatwa]

The message has been changed to read

The Symposium Has Been Cancelled!

[Paul1968UK]

A symposium organised by a secret committee that even the promoters didn't know the identity of was doomed from the word go.

Support from the Bigfoot community? Hey, it is the Bigfoot community who are your customers, not promoters. Plenty of websites (including this one) gave them free space to promote the symposium - what more do they want? Don't blame this on us. Perhaps if the tickets had been realistically priced? - how can Craig organise an excellent conference year after year with a very low ticket price and the same speakers that this symposium wanted $250 for? Someone was planning on profiting from this symposium, and because of the secrecy, we don't know who.

I'm glad I decided not to go - I would have been really pissed off to have it cancelled after I spent a fortune on airline tickets.

I'll see you guys in Texas.

[HarryHenderson]

Since I had been planning on going, I didn't want to muddy the waters by airing my own petty grievances, but since it's now belly up, screw 'em. The price was COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. All anyone had to do was simply add the numbers up in their head and see exactly what Paul just said, SOMEONE was planning on starting their own small BANK after the show. 300 particpants at $160? Let's see, $48k? Pay the speakers, buy some food, rent the hall, print some flyers and t-shirts and we're all the way down to a measely $40k 'contingency' fund. Yes, 'we all' must be REAL BASTARDS for not falling into place on that one.

Soooooooooo, is there any space left at the Texas gig?

[JayleeD]

I can't say I'm surprised to hear the conference didn't have the support that was 'apparently' needed to make it a go. The ticket prices were way too high for most of us 'common folk' to even think about purchasing. Add that to the cost of airline tickets, lodging, food, car rental, etc. and you're talking in the thousands. One of my dreams is to meet Bob Gimlin and shake his hand, but the $$ just made this impossible.


Harry, you make it to TX, we'll share a seat with you!

[Paul1968UK]

Harry can always sit on my lap if necessary

[bigfootboy]

Yeah, I gotta admit I am very disapointed it is cancelled. I was looking foward to my first trip to the PNW, meeting alot of folks Ive never met, meeting Bob would have been a highlight. I was told that if the event was cancelled I would recieve a refund minus the pay pal fee's. I just need to figure out what Im going to do with my plane ticket. I might still go to California to meet up with a few folks who are still gathering that weekend. I just hope it all works out in the end. I will be going to the Texas conf. next year. See you all in 2008.

[JayleeD]

Hummm, this makes no sense, does it?

Symposium reminder,
The cut off date for tickets to be purchased is September 15th, 2007!

So with hesitation we will keep accepting ticket puchases from today Saturday September 1st, 2007 to Monday September 3rd, 2007 11pm PST - If we reach 350 ticket purchases then the Symposium will be reinstated.

Bold - me...

[peregrine]

I feel sorry for the people who purchased airline tickets to Arcata that can't be refunded.

Here are some options I saw on the Internet.

It is completely up to the airline as to whether or not the particular instance warrants a refund. But it doesn't hurt to ask, even multiple times. Some airlines may issue a new ticket or provide a flight credit voucher instead of offering a refund. Another trick is to have your travel agent talk to the airline, assuming you used him to purchase the ticket. Sometimes they will be able to swing a deal. Unused nonrefundable tickets can often be applied as a credit toward another nonrefundable ticket of equal or higher value on the same airline, less a small reticketing fee of $35 to $50. You'll also have to pay any difference in the fares, and you can do this for up to one year after the date of purchase. (Note that if the new ticket costs less than the old ticket, you probably won't be credited with the difference.)

Even if one was unable to recoup the entire cost of a nonrefundable ticket, the cost difference of the Texas Bigfoot Conference could still leave one ahead financially.

[bf2004]

I had originally planned on going to the Symposium, until I saw the outrageous prices they were charging. Then I decided to go to the Texas Conference, because they are only charging $15.00 at the door, which is a helluva bargain compared to what the Symposium would have charged. Plus, it's closer to where I am, basically a short hop from here to Dallas, then about an hour's drive to Jefferson (Kathy and Bob Strain will be doing the driving, since they offered to pick me up at the airport). Of course, even the most expensive package for the Conference ($55.00) is still much better than $160-180 for a ticket to the Symposium (original price was a whopping $225!!!). Factor in airline prices, gas for driving, rental car costs, food and lodging for the Symposium, and that will run you into the thousands of dollars. I would've been pissed if I had decided to go to the Symposium, but since it has been cancelled, there is the Texas gig (which I am still 85% sure I am coming to). All I need is lodging and to borrow my grandfather's frequent-flyer miles. I am hoping to be able to stay at Dave and Penny Houston's cabin at Caddo Lake (if I can contact them) and also to have a way from Caddo Lake to Jefferson (which should not be too hard if Kathy and Bob Strain come to pick me up and take me back to my cabin every day). I am still hoping that everything works out for me to be able to be in Texas. If it does, I will see you all there!!!

[HarryHenderson]

Harry can always sit on my lap if necessary

Even I hope you don't have to eat those words.

[Hairy Man]

All I need is lodging and to borrow my grandfather's frequent-flyer miles. I am hoping to be able to stay at Dave and Penny Houston's cabin at Caddo Lake (if I can contact them) and also to have a way from Caddo Lake to Jefferson (which should not be too hard if Kathy and Bob Strain come to pick me up and take me back to my cabin every day). I am still hoping that everything works out for me to be able to be in Texas. If it does, I will see you all there!!!

Please don't count on us being able to take you to and from the cabin each day (unless it's very close, our social calendar is filling up...but I'm someone will give you a ride). You need to coordinate with us on when you'll land at the airport (mid morning, I hope) and leaving (mid afternoon) (cause we're heading to Jefferson on Friday and not leaving until there until Monday morning).

As for this symposium being canceled, I am disappointed because I had a Karuk bigfoot song I was going to play. I guess I'll have to save it to play some other time.

This post has been edited by Hairy Man: Sep 4 2007, 05:06 PM

[Apeman]

This is disappointing. Though I had some ambivalences, I was planning to attend. I had tried to openly question the relatively steep price, because it was in line with what I usually pay for professional meetings...that includes most meals, a couple open bars, some excursion, at least one large professional meeting hall, oh and a full WEEK's activities. Anyway, this is too bad as it would have been nice to commemorate the 40 year mark in Willow Creek, regardless of the fact that the meeting was presumaby going to be sabout the same as every other one.

Apeman

[Paul1968UK]

You can always come to Texas instead Apeman - all the cool kids are going to be there

[Wildphotographer]

I don't wish them harm, but that "group" has always struck me as suffering from self-destructive tendencies.

For example, they still maintain a link to Lloyd Pye. Grendel Films is prominently featured, promoting MK Davis and his "Patty is a human, not a bigfoot" ideas. Some craziness called The New Being Project is also there, along with a number of other rather "odd" (in my opinion) product links.

Maybe the organizers should have thought to present a more conservative image to attract mainstream interest and that of others intrigued by some aspect of the bigfoot phenomenon?

With all due respect, Peregrine, Lloyd Pye has been a long time friend of Jason Valenti and was never scheduled to appear at the symposium. Also, Grendel Films (my company) and the New Being Project were only advertisers who paid a substantial fee to have their links on the site in support of the symposium. You are of course entitled to your opinions, but there have been Blogs (now edited) that have directly quoted your posts and others insinuating that my company, Grendel Films, was in part responsible for the failure of the symposium. That was dealt with very swiftly by legal pleadings to inform the offending site of my intent to sue.

Jason Valenti has had a very long and trying battle to recover emotionally and financially after the tragic, untimely death of his wife which left him and his young son alone. Then a domain name squatter snatched his original domain name from him during the weeks after his wife's death virtually wiping his business interests from the web. It has been an uphill struggle for him ever since and his promotion of this symposium was a gamble that didn't pay off unfortunately. So, it is better to simply acknowledge the failure of the symposium and wish the promoters better luck next time, than to make uneducated guesses as to why it failed.

John L. Johnsen
Grendel Films

[bipto]

Some random thoughts:

1. The community should not be blamed for over-priced tickets. I think the idea of a conference of this kind in that area this year was really a good one. However, my experience is bigfooters are not the most affluent of demographic groups. There's only so much they can afford (oh, and their hobby can be pretty expensive even without the conferences). While I still maintain that the Texas event is clearly too cheap, the Arcata event was way too expensive.

2. I agree completely with Peregrine's comments regarding the links on their site and the people they chose to associate their event with. That alone, even if I could have gone, would have given me pause. The high cost would have been the final nail for me.

3. Nobody ever ever got rich off bigfoot. Not ever. Not even Matt Moneymaker. Not even Roger Patterson. I guess we'd need to agree on the meaning of "rich", of course.

4. Nobody should be disparaged for trying to make money off bigfoot. Perverting existing good will and reputation aside, there's nothing wrong with seeing an unserved market and attempting to capitalize on it. Hell, that's what I do all day long in running my business. I always price my services as high as I think the market or job or client will bear. I want to make as much profit as possible. That's the American Way. In the case of this symposium, the price was set too high and still didn't meet expectations at a lower level. Whatever. That's business.

5. Apeman, come to Texas. COME TO TEXAS.

[Paul1968UK]

Why it failed is obvious - ticket prices too high, an 'organisation' who was obviously out to make money from this since they weren't registering as not-for-profit, a choice of venue miles from Willow Creek, a poorly designed website that advertised dubious products, an organising committee that even Jason didn't know the members of, and Valenti himself who has some rather 'out there' ideas, who I for one steer well clear of.

Not to mention the rather odd attitude of complaining about us organising the threads about the symposium. Not once did Valenti or anyone else associated with this symposium thank the BFF for its part in promoting the symposium for free, instead we got a post from 'lonewolf' last week bitching about us organising the free promotion BFF provides.

This forum has been here all along, like it or not, this *is* the biggest Bigfoot community in the world - any of the organisers could have spoken about the symposium and generated interested about it by posting here and answering questions, but they chose not to and the symposium failed. If a symposium wants support from the 'Bigfoot Community', then they have to actually talk to that community - they shouldn't blame the community for lack of support - that's low.

[bipto]

...there have been Blogs (now edited) that have directly quoted your posts and others insinuating that my company, Grendel Films, was in part responsible for the failure of the symposium. That was dealt with very swiftly by legal pleadings to inform the offending site of my intent to sue.

Oh, whatever. "Legal pleadings"!?!

...it is better to simply acknowledge the failure of the symposium and wish the promoters better luck next time

Better luck next time. Seriously.

...than to make uneducated guesses as to why it failed.

Well, hell, if we can't make uneducated guesses, we might as well shut the joint down...

[Wildphotographer]

I too agree with the assertion that the ticket prices were too high. And, in my opinion, if the operating budget dictated that high a ticket price then the budget should have been severely cut. But, they didn't ask for my opinion before they set up the system so I can't comment any more than I have as it would be speculation. I do know that it was to be held at Humboldt State University and that the university was providing all of the technical equipment as well as doing the video production so I can only imagine that costs were high.

As far as the "Bigfoot Community" supporting the effort, it is my observation as a relative newcomer to the scene and an accidental participant, that the "community" is not very supportive of their own, regardless of the circumstances. My first documentary "Keeping the Watch" was born out of a bad experience with a prominent "Bigfooter" and his blatant exploitation of regular people with an interest in the topic. And, as far as support from the community goes, in spite of being labeled everything from a money grubber to being associated with racism my film has paid me back for all investments and expenses, which is truly remarkable for a first time effort. My sales were to everyday folks interested in the phenomenon, not researchers. The bulk of the researchers that did receive my film were sent copies for review purposes, and those reviews have been very pleasing.

And a comment on Lloyd Pye:
Lloyd is a graduate of Tulane. In his controversial work he has had to do his homework as to the lineage and history of hominoids because his theory is dependent on that. He can quote the geological history and fossil records, including genus and species names, of more hominoid forms than I can and I have a degree in physical and historical geology. I never used my education to make a living. Lloyd learned and used his and does so every day. I do have a few problems with his theory and hope someday to be able to sit down with him in a leisurely manner and discuss them. But Lloyd Pye is very relevant to the subject of hominoid versus hominid studies and Bigfoot at large.

And finally:
To judge an event simply upon the face value of the advertisers that contributed to it is invalid. The second page of the event listed a very diverse menu of ideas from main stream bigfoot researchers including M.K. Davis who is more mainstream that you would know. Yet, not knowing and speculating led to more speculation and blame being assigned where it didn't belong. In essence the book was judged not for content, but by its cover.

The price was too high or the operating budget too steep. That is it in a nutshell.

[Paul1968UK]

Of course, the planning from the word go was flawed by organising it to clash with the Texas conference.

People can't attend both - it is that simple.

The little alien on the web page and association with Lloyd Pye didn't help either though did it? Yes, it might have got a few advertising bucks, but it turned a lot of serious bigfoot enthusiasts off.

[peregrine]

With all due respect, Peregrine, Lloyd Pye has been a long time friend of Jason Valenti and was never scheduled to appear at the symposium.

Who said he was a speaker?

Also, Grendel Films (my company) and the New Being Project were only advertisers who paid a substantial fee to have their links on the site in support of the symposium.

Like it or not, in my opinion, those who are accepted as advertisers at a website reflect on that website and, by extension, the event being promoted.

You are of course entitled to your opinions, but there have been Blogs (now edited) that have directly quoted your posts and others insinuating that my company, Grendel Films, was in part responsible for the failure of the symposium. That was dealt with very swiftly by legal pleadings to inform the offending site of my intent to sue.

So I'm entitled to my opinions, but if someone else refers to my opinions, they get threatened?

Jason Valenti has had a very long and trying battle to recover emotionally and financially after the tragic, untimely death of his wife which left him and his young son alone. Then a domain name squatter snatched his original domain name from him during the weeks after his wife's death virtually wiping his business interests from the web. It has been an uphill struggle for him ever since and his promotion of this symposium was a gamble that didn't pay off unfortunately.

He's had some tough breaks, no question. That doesn't alter my view that he was not the right person or entity to undertake this project.

So, it is better to simply acknowledge the failure of the symposium and wish the promoters better luck next time, than to make uneducated guesses as to why it failed.

Au contraire. It is better for those who would undertake similar projects to learn from failure. You may consider my insights as "uneducated" (don't worry, I won't sue you for that insult), but I happen to believe that they are more helpful than a hearty "Better luck next time."

As for the cost that you and others have mentioned, I didn't think the revised price, $160, was too out of line for the Arcata event. In 2003 the museum folks charged $125 (I think) for the Willow Creek symposium, and that venue was terrible; the location was inconvenient, the sound was bad, there was no air conditioning, and the town was ill-suited to support the dining and housing needs of the few hundred people in attendance. However, what the symposium steering committee had in spades was credibility, and that made all the difference, in my opinion.

Credibility was an issue of concern with the Arcata event.

In my opinion.

By the way, I don't confuse my opinions with fact.

IMO

[bipto]

Like it or not, in my opinion, those who are accepted as advertisers at a website reflect on that website and, by extension, the event being promoted.

I've had a client remove their ads from YouTube (one of the highest trafficked sites on the web) because someone complained about a video their ad happened to be placed next to (it's mostly random how that works). There is a very strong connection between the ad and the content. One implicitly endorses the other.

[Apeman]

5. Apeman, come to Texas. COME TO TEXAS.

Is that near Willow Creek?

No, I'm reconsidering my fall bigfoot meeting excursion but the timing is really bad. Plus flying to Shreveport via Dallas is a little less appealing than a leisurely drive up Route 1. I finally live near the supposed heart of bigfoot country and have to go to Texas to catch up with the other loons? Can't we just have the Texas conference in Arcata or Eureka?


Apeman

This post has been edited by Apeman: Sep 5 2007, 09:23 PM

[HarryHenderson]

"...I finally live near the supposed heart of bigfoot country and have to go to Texas to catch up with the other loons?..." I have to concur with that sentiment. Honestly, my own motivation to go to TX (now, in lieu if Arcata) is not nearly as much about Bigfoot as it is with wanting to meet all these other LOONS...well that and to see a 'bark ball'.

[bigfoot_surplus]

I like to support others in the Bigfoot Community and to think I almost bought my ticket, flight, car rental, advertising for their program, etc... So I really feel bad for those that already put money down.

Over the years that I have been involved and going to as many of the events as I could afford -- I always had a thought of why not do one of these a bit different. So I will toss this idea out there to see what kind of response it will get...

How many people would be interested in meeting up at a campsite or location as near to Bluff Creek as possible? Sharing stories instead of having specific speakers. Celebrating the 40th.

Just a thought. Any comments?