Tree Breaks, Visual differences between different types. Options

[sasquatchfound]

I believe from reports and relationships with sightings don't quote me on that

[mike2k1]

Out of curiosity how did the whole tree twist/break thing get associated with the Big guy anyway? Is there a sighting where someone withnessed one of the critters doing this? I have always wiondered.

It has been associated with sasquatch for about as long as there has been sasquatch lore.

[Ace!]

Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.

Thanks. There are three or four of us going there in a month or so. I'm somewhat near Medford (nearest city to me near I-5) but spend a lot of time near Ruch/Applegate (if you know where that is). I've found a couple sets of prints and an interesting tree break. I've got a brother working on his masters (biology/teaching credential) and I and a hunting friend have "years and years" of woods experience. Together we've seen a few things that we can't explain in the area east of Bolan Lake.

I lived north and south of you probably, at various times, Chula Vista and Long Beach. I've got family in Mission Viejo. If you find yourself in this area, give me a shout (PM) and maybe we can hit the woods around here.

This post has been edited by Ace!: Apr 24 2007, 08:04 PM

[moregon]

Ace have you been out to the old "Bigfoot Trap" in the Applegate? Last I heard they were restoring it, after all the graffitti that's been put on there and keep it in shape as a tourist attraction now. If you go to the trap, at the bottom of the hill looking out towards the ravine from the backside of the trap there's a seasonal creek. Later during the year, after all the snowmelt, you'll find small areas of gravel exposed in the creek bed. There was a tree down that's roots were on the top of the ridge on the opposite side of the creek. There was a gravel bed just on the other side of a large boulder, and that's where I found my first track. If you haven't been to the trap and interested let me know and I'll send you directions on how to get there.

[socaldave]

Yes, the breaks were all on the dirt road leading to the lake except for one that was a mile or two down the paved road from the entrance to Bolan Lake.
Edit to add I live in southern California almost halfway between LA and SD.

Thanks. There are three or four of us going there in a month or so. I'm somewhat near Medford (nearest city to me near I-5) but spend a lot of time near Ruch/Applegate (if you know where that is). I've found a couple sets of prints and an interesting tree break. I've got a brother working on his masters (biology/teaching credential) and I and a hunting friend have "years and years" of woods experience. Together we've seen a few things that we can't explain in the area east of Bolan Lake.

I lived north and south of you probably, at various times, Chula Vista and Long Beach. I've got family in Mission Viejo. If you find yourself in this area, give me a shout (PM) and maybe we can hit the woods around here.

Hey Ace,
We are planning on heading up that way for a week this summer. Let's stay in touch.

[xpert4u]

Before this winter I was a believer in tree breaks as a sign of BF activity in an area. But after this winter up here, I can document hundreds/thousands of tree breaks in all sizes of trees and all shapes, heights, lengths, etc. So now I'm on the fence about what it all means.

[Ace!]

Absolutely SoCal, we’ll have to stay in touch. I started a new job not too long ago so I don’t have a bunch of vacation time available, but I’d definitely want to meet up and maybe I could spend a couple days out with you guys.

Moregon, I know where it is, but have never been there. I drive by it from time to time because I fish relatively close (Applegate area) and hunt near there too. I found a single, perfect print, in some soft “silt” like dirt next to a creek probably a couple miles due south of there. It was the second time I’ve found prints in that area; the first set being some miles east (not too far from Squaw Lakes, east of Applegate Lake). The first set of prints was three in series that blew me away. Because they were in a series it was so convincing I still to this day can’t believe what I found (I have a very hard time believing in the unexplained). Because they were in series I was able to see the stride and size of right/left feet together and it was just perfect (I don’t mean too perfect to be real, but rather just the opposite).

Xpert4u, I thought the same thing about tree breaks having to be weather/exposure related until hunting last year. A friend and I were hunting grouse/mountain quail and found a fresh break on a tree not too big in diameter. The break was at approximately 6.5” from the ground and still green. It was in a dense area with cover from taller trees and very little wind (due to the other trees “protecting” it). There also was no snowfall at this time. It had marks above and below the break that were not scratches, but the bark was damaged (could have been horns, but really didn’t look like it). I couldn’t break a green tree at that height; trying to reach above my head with both hands and physically “snap” it. Wasn’t physically possible for me, as pulling on any other small trees just bent them over unit the tops touched the ground. There are no elk in the area and it was too tall for deer; there was also no deer or elk sign. We saw at least 100 scats we attributed to black bear and I have to assume it was bear, BUT, it sure was perplexing to see that tree bent/broken the way it was. I assume it was a bear that broke it, but I don’t know exactly how it did it. This was at the end of an old, unused skid road (logging area), and at the end the trees were much more dense and there was a “trail” that we walked a few yards, heard something, and we left. It was probably a bear.

[MYM]

It’s funny because I have a lot of friends who mountain bike. One of the things they do around here is go into the woods, sometimes illegally, and knock down trees and such to build trails or legally do it to maintain trails. When they do this they make quite a few tree twists and breaks and such. I guess I find the whole tree break deal to be almost impossible for me to even relate to sassy. At least around here in New England. I am not doubting that it is a valid point of research or trying to invalidate those who use it as as stepping stone to solid proof but it’s hard, for me anyway, to make the direct correlation between tree twists/breaks and Sassy.

[Ace!]

MYM, what would be the point of bending the tree over at 6.5' from the ground? I'm really looking for another reason I've seen them, not trying to be defensive. What would it accomplish at that height, or why not pull the tree out of the ground to clear a trail?

[boggycreek]

Well, maybe ole Sas is a fan of Robert Frost. I know "Birches" has always been one of my favorites. And, being so heavy, instead of them bending the trees, they end up breaking.

[moregon]

My dad use to do a lot of Big Game hunting all over N. America, including bear, moose, elk etc. He'd spent quite a bit of time in several Canadian Provinces for moose, usually to locations that required a fly-in type camp. During one of these trips, I believe this one was in Northern Ontario he and his hunting partners were on an Island scouting for moose on a very foggy morning. One of his partners had apparently spooked a moose towards my dad's direction and although he couldn't see it, there was no problem hearing it. Now this is his story and whether it's fact or simply something said to make the incident more exciting, he claimed the moose's antlers actually broke a number of saplings in the thicket he'd run through at over six feet above the ground. If this is possible, and the saplings are in moose country, or maybe even elk I assume this could be a possibility as well.

Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE





This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?

[Ace!]

I don't doubt it Moregon, and would expect something in that situation. In my situation the Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife biologists state that are no elk in this area (it wasn't antler rubs anyway though, I'm familiar enough to know). I sure wish it looked like antler rubs and wasn't quite so high off the ground, then I would have just said, "hey look at that rub over there." I wish it would be that easy to explain some of these things away sometimes.

[yowiie]

I was just going through the tree break threads and did not find any mention of trees being actually removed from the ground and just layed over. In some of my locations I quite often find trees that you can just get your hands pulled up roots and all, I cannot see any reason or explain the reason for it. I have also discovered trees that have been broken at heights of 5-7feet and above the break there have been birds nests that appear to have been tampered with.

[rockinkt]

My dad use to do a lot of Big Game hunting all over N. America, including bear, moose, elk etc. He'd spent quite a bit of time in several Canadian Provinces for moose, usually to locations that required a fly-in type camp. During one of these trips, I believe this one was in Northern Ontario he and his hunting partners were on an Island scouting for moose on a very foggy morning. One of his partners had apparently spooked a moose towards my dad's direction and although he couldn't see it, there was no problem hearing it. Now this is his story and whether it's fact or simply something said to make the incident more exciting, he claimed the moose's antlers actually broke a number of saplings in the thicket he'd run through at over six feet above the ground. If this is possible, and the saplings are in moose country, or maybe even elk I assume this could be a possibility as well.

Since we're talking about trees here, I came across this picture today and found it interesting. The picture comes from a
Guide Book for Grizzly Bear Habitat from the government of British Columbia. It's a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file and can be found HERE



This picture is in reference to identifying trees that have had bears rub their backs on. It talks about finding hair, and on conifer trees, as shown in this picture, you'll find the markings much more visible due to the sap (pine tar) from the tree itself. What struck me odd is the obvious area that has been rubbed is quite a bit taller than the bear in the picture. So is this a very small grizzly, or evidence of something else?

I have seen moose break off saplings while running. This occurred when there was early freezing weather and the moose still had their antlers. The saplings were frozen and therefore much more likely to break rather than bend.
I have also seen moose run and actually let their heads swivel as their antlers came into contact with trees and saplings - therefore not really breaking or bending anything.

As far as the photo of the grizzly and the cedar tree - IMHO - thinking that this is only a "rub" tree for bears is an error. That looks very much like what is known in my area as a "bear tree" or a "scratch tree".
Bears will reach as high as they can and scratch or tear the tree with their claws and sometimes teeth as a way of marking territory and as a warning to others that they are the biggest and baddest. The higher the scratch marks - the bigger the bear. Of course - young grizzly bears sometimes climb these trees (while their claws are still able to dig in) and pull themselves up pretty high and scratch the tree - which is pretty funny to see. The bear leaves its scent while it is rubbing and scratching the tree and may defecate and/or urinate to punctuate his/her statement.
Therefore - I think that the fact that there are high marks on that tree are not indicative of anything other than bear activity.