More dermal experimentation, Split from "Dermal Ridges and Casting Artifacts" Options

[Melissa]

The soil on Onion Mountain has NO volcanic ash... What did tube use for his casting experiments? Volcanic Ash. Tube also used Hydrocal - I used Plaster of Paris, which by the way is what was used to cast the Onion Mountain Tracks...

This is very significant, IMO. If Tube was able to create artifacts using material that was not used when casting the OM tracks and if his technique was significantly different than that used by Green when casting them (i.e., the temperature of the water), then I think Melissa's findings are important. This takes nothing away from Tube's work regarding the possibility that, under certain conditions and with certain materials, dermals could be simulated. However, I don't think that until someone finds false dermals after doing what Mel did here - namely, reproduce the OM conditions as closely as possible - we can discount what's on those casts.

Remember, I'm talking about the Onion Mountain casts here. Nothing else. Tube's work clearly shows that false dermals are possible. I'm just saying his work (due to his methodology) does not show that the Onion Mountain dermals are false.

I totally agree with you Bipto - and I think its important others understand this as well. Knowing that Artifacts are possible is VERY important - which is why I liked the work done by tube.. My work is not about discrediting or proving him wrong, as its my opinion Artifacts are possible -- I just wanna know why and how they happen.

Tubes work also showed something else - which I think could be an indicator for what could be looked for as a possible hoax.. but more on that when I get my work done. Like I said in a previous post - I dont want to guess, or assume anything.

In my opinion the Onion Mountain Cast is still in play as a cast that may show Dermal Ridge patterns.

[JayleeD]

Anyone can make anything happen - depends on how bad you want to make it happen.

Personally I think it boils down to a couple factors - he used Hydrocal with water heated to 100 degrees, knowing full well this would infact create "Artifacts". He used Volcanic Ash - whats the difference between Volcanic Ash and the soil at Onion Mountain - I can tell you quite a bit.

So, are you saying that you think Matt only came forward with his findings after he found the materials and casting conditions that it would take to create these artifacts?

I always got the impression that Matt was only experimenting to find out if so called dermal ridges could be, or possibly had been, confused with casting artifacts. I'm confused now that you are bringing in the fact that he didn't use the exact substrate material, casting material or conditions that John Green used to cast the original OM cast. It seems that Tube's entire experiment is being questioned because he didn't do this. Is that correct?

Thanks.

Oops, I just saw that we were posting at the same time. I am going to leave this up, but I understand better after reading your last post just what you meant by what I quoted here.

[LAL]

LAL wrote:

Incidently, you might have used a "perhaps" yourself when you said Freeman fooled him.

Please cite the quote. If you can, if we ever meet, I'll rub your feet for an hour. :laugh:

"Oh, you mean the footprints made by a guy that Byrne, Dahinden, Green and countless others have never given hardly any credence to, due to his incredible "luck" at finding "evidence"? Plus the fact that the prints are so morphologically different from other alleged Bigfoot prints as to be viewed as laughable by many. If the film was a hoax it would have been incredibly easy to have planted them for HIMSELF to video. But since Meldrum, He at whose altar you worship constantly, bought the footprints lock, stock and barrel, they, therefore, are likely real? Lu, you really crack me up. Speaking of Meldrum, have you ever disagreed with anything he has said or written...besides grammatical errors?"

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?sho...=16452&st=0

(Bipto, was some of that beyond posting guidelines? Just curious.)

Not a direct quote, but the meaning seems clear.

Are you suggesting Freeman somehow got into the muddy field and faked a line of forty prints just prior to Meldrum's unexpected visit? Meldrum was suspicious (pg. 23) at first. See the full story in the book. Part of it is here:

http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html

They found more prints that Freeman evidently hadn't found after they'd taken their leave of him and returned to make casts.

I'm told Wes Summerlin cast a hand print; are we sure who cast what? There's one where the fingers look pointy because mud was filling in the impressions (good photo in Murphy's book). Meldrum compares a Freeman cast to a muddy handprint found on a house in California (pg. 108).

Did you grab the wrong photo by mistake(lower foot cast)? That's not a Freeman cast. The photo looks identical to the one I posted. Is the upper one part of Wrinkle Foot right?

Again, who's this "many"?

This post has been edited by LAL: Oct 24 2006, 07:38 AM

[LAL]

Below is not one but two of Mr. Freeman's amazing "hand" finds! The footprints are all Freeman-related "finds". You really have no problems at all with the one in the upper left hand corner? Seriously, its outline looks closer to "Wilson" from Castaway than an organically made print. Do you seriously think any of those probably came from a Bigfoot?

Some of Freeman's stuff is good, some borders on the ridiculous. Some people think he embellished his "finds" to make them easier to cast, I don't know if this is true or speculation.

But he conveniently "found" a whole lot more stuff than the average bf researcher actively looking for tracks.

Krantz seemed to think he was the real deal.

Brian Smith said he embellished real prints to make them better for casting. That's not hoaxing, that's just..........dumb. This could be the explanation for the dermals Dahinden found under debris in the prints Freeman showed him (that led to the famous "village idiot" remark). I don't know of any photos or casts from that trackway.

He moved to be near a "hot spot" and went out as often as he could. With activity in the area, I would think he'd find something. Smith said he's found evidence in the same area.

Not only Krantz but his fingerprint experts thought the casts were the real deal.

Seen this?

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/sbs/somer87.htm

[Yetifan]

LAL, quoting me, posted:

But since Meldrum, He at whose altar you worship constantly, bought the footprints lock, stock and barrel, they, therefore, are likely real? Lu, you really crack me up. Speaking of Meldrum, have you ever disagreed with anything he has said or written...besides grammatical errors?"

Sorry Lu, but me claiming that Meldrum has "bought the footprints lock, stock and barrel" is not exactly the same (syntactically and semantically) as saying (quoting you) that "Freeman fooled him". Someone can believe in something "lock, stock and barrel" and not be fooled. Do I think it's highly likely Meldrum has been fooled? Yes. Sorry, no foot rub.

Are you suggesting Freeman somehow got into the muddy field and faked a line of forty prints just prior to Meldrum's unexpected visit?

Wow. Yeah, there's NO WAY Freeman could have done that. :new_whistle: Your above quote presumes that if, indeed, Freeman was a hoaxer, Meldrum was his only target. He showed many of his "finds" to other researchers and, indeed, it's possible anyone else who was willing to listen to him.

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Oct 24 2006, 10:03 AM

[RogerKni]

Hi--all this is over my head, but I want to toss in something that might be relevant, even though you folks have probably taken it into consideration:

Unimproved logging or Forest Service roads can become dust beds in dry weather as the traffic pulverizes the dirt into extremely fine dust. The powdery dust picks up fine details of the skin ....

If the dirt taken now from Onion Mtn. isn't the same pulverized road dust, that may be the differentiating factor.

[bipto]

If I remember correctly, the tracks we're talking about demonstrated evidence of toe flex and midtarsal break. If Freeman hoaxed them, then maybe we should figure out where he was in October, 1967.

[RogerKni]

Say, Freeman was over 6'4" and 250 lbs! :wink:

[Melissa]

Hi--all this is over my head, but I want to toss in something that might be relevant, even though you folks have probably taken it into consideration:

Unimproved logging or Forest Service roads can become dust beds in dry weather as the traffic pulverizes the dirt into extremely fine dust. The powdery dust picks up fine details of the skin ....

If the dirt taken now from Onion Mtn. isn't the same pulverized road dust, that may be the differentiating factor.

Hi RogerKni - Thats pretty much what it is to be honest. Its very light and powdery - but it holds up under bodyweight. I spoke with the folks who completed the last soil survey (the year before the cast was made) and I was told the same rocks being put up there then, are the same kind of rocks they use on these roads today.

I can see why Tube thought this soil would be comparable to Volcanic Ash (given it being so lightweight etc.)-but it just is not. I will have to post some pictures of this soil.

[Yetifan]

Melissa wrote:

Tubes work spoke directly to the Onion Mountain Cast - regardless how you slice it - so, why didnt I get the same results he did, using the 100 degree water, thick plaster mix and straight pour - using the soil from Onion Mountain? Im still scratching my head over that..

And then RogerKni wrote:

If the dirt taken now from Onion Mtn. isn't the same pulverized road dust, that may be the differentiating factor.

I talked to tube last night and he informed me that the Onion Mt. dirt he was provided with from Kathy M. had lots of organic material in it. I would hope this was also the case with Melissa's dirt since, I assume, they were taken from the same spot. Tube said that he didn't get any casting artifacts with the dirt provided, same as Melissa. It's my understanding that Green's casting of the now-famed Onion Mt. cast was on or near a road which, as Roger alludes to above, could very well be quite different compositionally. Meaning...less organic material and more "pulverized road dust".

However, tube makes this point at his website...

Regardless of whether or not the Onion Mountain cast exhibits Bigfoot’s dermal ridges or casting artifacts, it is clear that the cast was made in a substrate which did not strongly adhere to the plaster of Paris that Green used to make the cast. Note the subtle, but important assumption here, that the copies which we are studying are true and accurate copies. If the substrate strongly adhered to Green’s cast, and the copies we have are true, then we would see a texture of coarse dirt, like that seen on the Johor cast above. (see his website for the pic... http://www.orgoneresearch.com/photo.htm) Since we don’t see a coarse dirt-like texture on the copies, it is a reasonable assumption that strong adhesion did not occur between Green’s plaster of Paris and the soil it was made in.

In other words, apparently, when you cast with Plaster of Paris in dirt with organic material in it stuff sticks to it and no "ridge-like" casting artifacts will emerge. If Green had cast that print in similar soil that would have happened as well. It didn't, since the copies of the original don't show any such properties. Therefore, probably not the same type of dirt. God, I have a headache. :laugh:


Anyway, hats off to both Melissa and tube in their efforts. Great to see some actual experimentation going on.

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Oct 24 2006, 11:05 AM

[Hairy Man]

Regarding the Onion Mountain soil - it was taken from the Onion Mountain road and I seriously doubt it was from the exact same spot as where John Green found the prints, but geologically on that road, it's the same soil. When John Green was there, the road had either been freshly graded or had some construction work on it (there are two different recollections). Regardless, the road was very powdery and fine, with few "visible" organics. The Onion Mountain soil sent to tube and Melissa was taken by scraping the fine powdery soil from the surface of the road. That soil contained some pine needles and leaves. However, since all soil is a combination of pulverized rock and decayed organic material (forest litter), and the Forest Service soil guide shows the same soil types for that entire area, I do not believe there is any difference between then and now, laterally or horizontially. A simple screening of the soil will remove large particles, which is what I instructed both tube and Melissa to do.

So back to the experiments.... There are two issues here.

1. Are the dermal ridges on the Onion Mountain cast, casting artifacts or dermal ridges of an unknown primate?

2. Can dermal ridges be created by casting artifacts?

The answer to number 2 is yes, they can. What we don't know is how and under what conditions they occur and what their frequency is (does it only occur with plaster or 100 degree water or when Venus and Mars are aligned just right...).

Since Matt did not recreate the conditions under which John Green took the Onion Mountain Casts, his experiments do not YET suggest that the those dermals are casting artifacts. What Melissa is doing is outstanding...she has not produced casting artifacts using John Green's methods OR tubes methods. Can those dermals still be casting artifacts? Sure, but again, we do not know the mechanizisms of when/how they occur. More work is needed.

[Blackdog]

Thanks HM, nice post!

[RogerKni]

Hi all. Here's a possibility: Was the Onion Mtn. road recently created in 1967? If so, the bulldozer would (or might) have dug down beneath the topsoil to create the covering on the road, reducing the percentage of organic material in it, and making it more ash-like (after pulverization) than it would be today.

Were forest roads ballasted with gravel back then the way they are now? WillinYC has told me offline that they weren't, usually.

Were there any needles showing in the photos Green et al. took? If not, that is another small nick in the organics theory.

This post has been edited by RogerKni: Oct 24 2006, 12:42 PM

[scotto]

I don't know how many generations removed this copy is, but even here, the ridges have characteristics of dermal ridges.

Regardless, a copy is a copy, you can't have it both ways. If a copy of the Skookum cast isn't good enough then a copy of the Onion MT. cast can't be either.

The copy isn't painted and there's no hair flow involved. The "original" OM cast being questioned is a copy. The original cast made by John Green was lost.

The same kind of V-shaped meeting can be seen here (not from Onion Mountain):





http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/dermal.html

The bottom pics are a good example of what I posted here:

Some people think he embellished his "finds" to make them easier to cast, I don't know if this is true or speculation.

I have this cast as well, and the dermals seen in this are speculated by some to be Freeman's own fingerprints, as he was "preparing" the tracks to cast. Maybe Chilcutt needs to get some of Freeman's prints, and compare them to the suspect dermals in this cast, to see if there is a close resemblance?

Krantz held this cast up as "THE cast" as proof for himself.

[scotto]

Since Matt did not recreate the conditions under which John Green took the Onion Mountain Casts, his experiments do not YET suggest that the those dermals are casting artifacts. What Melissa is doing is outstanding...she has not produced casting artifacts using John Green's methods OR tubes methods. Can those dermals still be casting artifacts? Sure, but again, we do not know the mechanizisms of when/how they occur. More work is needed.

Matt and Melissa did good work, but as DDA was trying to point out, there are so many factors present, in any given day, that could do any number of things to a cast as it is being poured.

You can go back to that exact same spot (if you could be sure) and get the dirt, but almost 40 years has passed since the original was made, and the soil could have changed a lot in its composition since that time.

Can you set up a situation where you can get "artifacts" from the soil sample today? I'm sure.

Can you pull dermals out of the very same soil sample using a human foot print? I'm sure.

I think it's great that Matt and Melissa both are experimenting with this, and I'm not trying to belittle anything they have done. Just IMO, both are possible.

[LAL]

Sorry Lu, but me claiming that Meldrum has "bought the footprints lock, stock and barrel" is not exactly the same (syntactically and semantically) as saying (quoting you) that "Freeman fooled him". Someone can believe in something "lock, stock and barrel" and not be fooled. Do I think it's highly likely Meldrum has been fooled? Yes. Sorry, no foot rub.

I think my paraphrase was accurate enough. I don't want you rubbing my feet, thanks.

Are you suggesting Freeman somehow got into the muddy field and faked a line of forty prints just prior to Meldrum's unexpected visit?

Wow. Yeah, there's NO WAY Freeman could have done that. :new_whistle: Your above quote presumes that if, indeed, Freeman was a hoaxer, Meldrum was his only target. He showed many of his "finds" to other researchers and, indeed, it's possible anyone else who was willing to listen to him.

I was referring specifically to photos you posted. Those were examined by a specialist in primate foot anatomy with another witness present. They found Freeman's prints from that morning indicating he had merely walked alongside the trackway, pausing at times to inspect. Meldrum found articulating toe prints, half tracks and even faint dermal ridges that disappeared rapidly in the wet conditions.

Wow. You think Freeman was capable of faking all that? He downplayed the trackway saying he'd seen much better ones. He routinely drove the muddy roads as early in the year as he could. I thought you were reading the book. Not up to page 25 yet?

You seem to be avoiding my question. Who are these "many"?

[LAL]

The bottom pics are a good example of what I posted here:

Some people think he embellished his "finds" to make them easier to cast, I don't know if this is true or speculation.

I have this cast as well, and the dermals seen in this are speculated by some to be Freeman's own fingerprints, as he was "preparing" the tracks to cast. Maybe Chilcutt needs to get some of Freeman's prints, and compare them to the suspect dermals in this cast, to see if there is a close resemblance?

Krantz held this cast up as "THE cast" as proof for himself.

Should he be exhumed? There were other rangers casting prints:

"Other Forest Service personnel from the Walla Walla Ranger District Office in Walla Walla, Washington (where Freeman was employed), were called to the scene that day, and they observed many apparent footprints that were consistent with an animal of that description. Many photographs were taken, and a plaster cast was made of one of these impressions (Fig. 1, right). The following day, a search and rescue team on an unrelated mission came upon the scene, took more photographs, made another cast (Fig. 2), and, attempted to track the creature. One week later, on June 17, Freeman and, other foresters encountered more footprints a few miles away, at a place called Elk Wallow, this time of two individuals. One of these sets of tracks matched the tracks at the sighting location, and a third cast was made (Fig 1, left). The second individual left slightly different tracks, and three casts were made of these (Figs. 3 and 4). The analysis in this article centers on these three new tracks (made by the second individual) from Elk Wallow, in the Mill Creek Watershed. (For more background information, see ISC Newsletter [1982a])



Fig. 1 — Two footprint casts made by Forest Service personnel of the animal reportedly seen by Paul Freeman. Both are imprints of the same left foot. The cast on the right was made on the day of the sighting, June 10, 1982. The cast on the left was made at Elk Wallow one week later, where it was accompanied by tracks of the prime (second) individual.

During the following winter, Freeman and other investigators found additional tracks on several occasions. They made more plaster casts indicating the existence of at least two more individuals. In all, 11 casts of four distinguishable types have been made. Five of these casts were made by Forest Service workers in June of 1982, and the originals are still in my possession, pending their ultimate disposition. One made by Art Snow of the search and rescue team, and five more made by Paul Freeman himself, have been copied with latex or Silastic molds and returned to their owners."

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/dermal.html

[Yetifan]

LAL wrote:

Those were examined by a specialist in primate foot anatomy with another witness present. They found Freeman's prints from that morning indicating he had merely walked alongside the trackway, pausing at times to inspect. Meldrum found articulating toe prints, half tracks and even faint dermal ridges that disappeared rapidly in the wet conditions.

Wow. I guess there's NO WAY Freeman could have made the fake tracks and then walked along side of them. :new_whistle: And "half tracks" can't be faked? Meldrum also thought the Snow Walker footage was real... hoax. Lu, you don't want to be characterized as a Meldrum groupie but your blindly accepting whatever he says in the above quote, with no conclusive evidence, doesn't really provide a counter argument to that notion. BTW...I don't seen any mention of the Redwoods video in his new book...you know, the one he argued for so long that he thought was probably real. Any thoughts on why that is?

Who are these "many"?

What, specifically, are you referring to?

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Oct 24 2006, 06:15 PM

[LAL]

Wow. I guess there's NO WAY Freeman could have made the fake tracks and then walked along side of them. :new_whistle: Meldrum also thought the Snow Walker footage was real. Hoax. I don't seen any mention of the Redwoods video in his new book...you know, the one he argued for so long that he thought was probably real. That's odd.

Who are these "many"?

What, specifically, are you referring to?

Meldrum exposed Snow Walker, too. Professional hoax. And a measurement on the tree showed the figure in the Redwoods video was 8' tall.

I'll take either the "many" you've said (twice, in effect) have noticed I "hero worship" or the "many" who think Freeman's casts are "cartoonish." Preferrably both.

While you're at it, please answer my other question about the upper cast photo. Which one is it?

This post has been edited by LAL: Oct 24 2006, 06:17 PM

[Wildman]

Ooo! Ooo! Ooo!



Raising my hand as one of the "many." :wink:

[LAL]

"Q: The article mentions a track that Chilcutt determined was fake. What is the origin of that track?

A: The "fake" element was overstated by the reporters. It was one of Freeman's casts from Elk Wallow (if memory serves me, but I will check the location name).

There was evidence of contamination by human fingerprints in the toe region. The question remains whether this was intentional or not.

There seems to be a natural inclination to touch tracks, brush away debris, or even embellish an indistinct spot. One of the toes clearly had a triple strike, in that the core pattern of a fingertip (human appearing ridge texture) was repeated down the length of the toe. This may have been done by Freeman or any of the numerous other individuals who examined the tracks prior to their casting.

What the reporter failed to mention was that along the margins of the foot there were examples of the distinct coarse textured ridges trending parallel to the margins of the foot! So it is not unreasonable to conclude that a legitimate footprint was literally "touched up" in the toe region."

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=303

Was this the cast you meant, scotto? In WCS 2003's presentation, Chilcutt came back to that cast and pointed out the longitudinal flow of ridges along the side of the foot. Evidently someone touched it in the toe area, but that was all.

Sasquatch dermal ridges are twice the width of human dermal ridges, according to Krantz.

[Yetifan]

LAL wrote:

And a measurement on the tree showed the figure in the Redwoods video was 8" tall.

Well, then why, if that's true, isn't there any mention in the book? How many 8 foot humans does he actually think exist in the world? Maybe it's because he thought real hard about it and realized an accurate measurement couldn't actually be done due to the unknown height of the video shooter inside the motorhome (plus other factors such how far, exactly, was the motorhome from the tree, how much air in the tires, etc.). If so, kudos to him.

I'll take either the "many" you've said (twice, in effect) have noticed I "hero worship" or the "many" who think Freeman's casts are "cartoonish." Preferrably both.

Lu, since I don't have the permission of fellow board members here who feel you, in effect, "hero worship" in relation to Meldrum, I'm sure you can understand why I won't post their names. You probably have a pretty good idea, though. If any of them want to come forward publicly, so be it. The same applies to some of the really goofy looking casts that came from Freeman.

While you're at it, please answer my other question about the upper cast photo. Which one is it?

Specifically, which photo, there are many on this thread.

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Oct 24 2006, 06:32 PM

[bipto]

I admire the work Meldrum has done in this field and value the expertise and legitimacy he brings to it. I absolutely will defer by default to anything he says related to tracks and casts since he has, like, 2000% more understanding of all that than I do. Does that make me a hero worshiper, too?

[LAL]

Ooo! Ooo! Ooo!



Raising my hand as one of the "many." :wink:

Grew some hair? You started the hero-worship thread on BFD, didn't you.

I mentioned at one point I gave that up when I found out Captain Marvel Jr. wasn't real. I mentioned also any hero worship I may have is for Rick Noll, but then I caught him spreading an urban legend so I had to knock him off his pedestal.

I think I've asked what all you "researchers" put together have accomplished, but I don't think I've received an answer yet.

[bipto]

I guess there's NO WAY Freeman could have made the fake tracks and then walked along side of them.

But how? I'm not saying it's impossible, but if we can so cavilerly dismiss tracks studied in the field by an expert in primate foot morphology, is there anything worth hanging our hat on in this field?

[Wildman]

Does that make me a hero worshiper, too?

Yes, you sycophantic zealot. :dry:

:laugh:

[bipto]

Seriously, though. Calling someone a hero worshiper totally debases their position in a way that's not entirely fair, IMO. I'm pretty sure this is an area where reasonable folks can disagree without resorting to that kind of tactic, isn't it?

[LAL]

Lu, since I don't have the permission of fellow board members here who feel you, in effect, "hero worship" in relation to Meldrum, I'm sure you can understand why I won't post their names. You probably have a pretty good idea, though. If any of them want to come forward publicly, so be it. The same applies to some of the really goofy looking casts that came from Freeman.

I think I named a few on the MIM thread. And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. Have any trained anatomists said they think Freeman's casts look cartoonish or is it just people on the board?

FYI :

"Appeal To Anonymous Authority:
an Appeal To Authority is made, but the authority is not named. For example, "Experts agree that ..", "scientists say .." or even "they say ..". This makes the information impossible to verify, and brings up the very real possibility that the arguer himself doesn't know who the experts are. In that case, he may just be spreading a rumor.

The situation is even worse if the arguer admits it's a rumor."

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic...s.html#they_say

Look familiar?

While you're at it, please answer my other question about the upper cast photo. Which one is it?

Specifically, which photo, there are many on this thread.

The top foot cast you posted in the "cartoonish" collection that I asked about at the time.

This post has been edited by LAL: Oct 24 2006, 06:49 PM

[Yetifan]

bipto wrote:

I'm not saying it's impossible, but if we can so cavilerly dismiss tracks studied in the field by an expert in primate foot morphology, is there anything worth hanging our hat on in this field?

The problem is that with no actual Bigfoot "foot" to conclusively show what someone claims is probably true about any given track, the logical deductions (or inductions in some cases) made from the tracks are, ultimately, speculative. In other words, it's still an open question. I'm not claiming at all not to listen to what Meldrum has to say. Just that to, a large extent, to accept hook, line and sinker whatever he says as gospel is dangerous, scientifically speaking. Is Meldrum the only primate foot morphology expert in the world? If what he has found is so amazing, as Lu appears to think so, why then no peer review of his work that has been met with equal enthusiasm by lots of other primate foot morphologists from around the world? Why no large scale call amongst his peers for taxonomic classification? I suspect it's because the possibility of either hoaxing or casting artifacts can't be completely ruled out in any particular case.

This post has been edited by Yetifan: Oct 24 2006, 07:00 PM

[Wildman]

You started the hero-worship thread on BFD, didn't you.

Why yes, I believe I did! Though I don't remember mentioning any names, for some reason you assume that the thread was about you. Listen to Carly Simon much? Maybe you should. :laugh:

I think I've asked what all you "researchers" put together have accomplished, but I don't think I've received an answer yet.

About as much as anyone else, I suppose. You know, put together some ideas and theories based on second-rate evidence, but yet still unable to produce a body. That's pretty much par for the course in bigfoot research. I'm reading Meldrum's book right now, but I have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't find a body in the end. I hope I didn't spoil it for anyone else! Yeah, us researchers really haven't done a lot but make some educated guesses. However, some of us do so in style! http://www.cafepress.com/georgiabigfoot

The check is in the mail, right BM???

[bipto]

I'm reading Meldrum's book right now, but I have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't find a body in the end.

Wow, are YOU going to be surprised! :new_lmaosmiley:

[Wildman]

:doh:

[LAL]

Paul, I didn't say it was about me. You linked to it during a DDA trashing session on one of the MD threads. Evidently respect gets no respect.

This is the photo, YF.



And what about the one that seems to be the one I posted. I got it via e-mail from a friend. How would you get it if not from my post? It's not a Freeman cast; it's a photo of a copy of the OM copy.