Primate Foot Images And Diagrams, Reference thread Options

[Apeman]

I've posted various gorilla and other primate foot images in relevant threads over the past couple years but since they are not always easy to find I thought I'd start a sort of reference thread to catolog these and other images. Since purported bigfoot tracks and casts are such an important element of this field, a reference on real primate feet seems to me to be a pretty worthwhile topic.

I am obviously not the exclusive proprietor of primate foot images so please feel free to contribute anything you think is worthwhile. I have regular access to a number of primates that I can photograph and sometimes manipulate as well as a huge archive of my own images so please feel free to make requests or suggest images. I'm short on time at the moment and have relatively poor internet access so I expect my own contributions to this thread to be slow but hopefully regular.

I would like to suggest that most discussion and analysis and comparison of images in this thread be taken elsewhere so this thread can mostly serve as a concise reference rather than a lot of dialog. I would also like to suggest to the administrators, moderators and Bipto that they consider a new area of the forum for reference material. We all use and manipulate lots of images regularly here so that is mostly what I'm thinking about, but easy to find and well organized references on things like instructions on casting tracks, handling samples, etc might also be useful. But I'm mostly thinking of things like a thread with all of the specific PGF frames, a thread of images of well known tracks or casts, etc.

Feel free to move this thread to a more appropriate place as well.

First image, which I just posted in Tube's thread, is the bottom of an adult male mountain gorilla.

Second image is a close-up of the top of the previous image hoping to better show dermatoglyphs. Note: I will usually post images in grayscale to save file space and often manipulate the contrast and tonal elements for effect, but otherwise don't change them.

[Edit- Is there some new mechanism in the forum that prevents the same member from making sequential posts and instead combines them? That will make this thread difficult....]

This post has been edited by Apeman: Apr 16 2006, 01:23 AM

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[Melissa]

Thank you so much I know I asked this in another thread, but to put it here - if its possible to get an outside view-weight bearing picture would be great.

Second request - close up of the outside edge of the foot non-weight bearing - showing the areas near the heel and ball of the foot.

Hope Im not being greedy But thank you in advance for whatever you can help me with.

[Apeman]

Thank you so much I know I asked this in another thread, but to put it here - if its possible to get an outside view-weight bearing picture would be great.

Second request - close up of the outside edge of the foot non-weight bearing - showing the areas near the heel and ball of the foot.

Hope Im not being greedy But thank you in advance for whatever you can help me with.

Here you go. Left is an infant eastern lowland gorilla, middle and right are infant mountain gorillas.

This post has been edited by Apeman: Apr 17 2006, 12:02 AM

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[Charlette]

Ape foot and Bronze casting of Orangutan Hand at Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle.

Bronze casting of Orangutan hand.

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[Apeman]

I posted this somewhere else already but it is the lateral edge of the right hind foot of an adult male golden monkey (Cercopithecus mitis kandtii) showing a somewhat dramatic change in pattern whereby the dermal lines run horizontally, a lot like some of the casts and casting artifacts.

This post has been edited by Apeman: Apr 18 2006, 02:04 AM

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[moregon]

Apeman, to the best of your knowledge, is there any ape or monkey or any other primate that would leave a print similar to those we've seen presented as bigfoot tracks? To me the tracks look considerably more humanlike than apelike.

[Apeman]

Apeman, to the best of your knowledge, is there any ape or monkey or any other primate that would leave a print similar to those we've seen presented as bigfoot tracks? To me the tracks look considerably more humanlike than apelike.

If you are talking about the general shape, obviously not, humans are clearly the most similar primate. If you are talking about dermal ridges, the answer is that I don't know enough about them in primates in general and even if I did, I have not seen bigfoot prints with enough pattern on them to make much of a useful comparison.

Reminder to please not let this thread become a discussion.


Here's a comparison from the Meldrum thread.

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[Apeman]

Let's see if this gets lumped with the previous....

This is a composite image (that I think I posted in another thread already- like most of these) of the bottom of an infant mountain gorilla foot. Note dermal ridge pattern and significant 'pitting' lesions.

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[Melissa]

Quote, Apeman: Note dermal ridge pattern and significant 'pitting' lesions.

Pitting lesions - can you explain what these are?

[Apeman]

Pitting lesions - can you explain what these are?

These wide, shallow holes seem to be associated with prolonged exposure to excessive moisture. The above is actually a post-mortem photo but this lesion does occur in live gorillas. Here is a photo of a live (but very sick and close to dead) gorilla showing these and other very severe lesions on the bottom of the feet. Just to show that not all feet are nice and smooth with good dermals.

Apeman

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[Apeman]

Here is a healthy young gorilla's heel, showing more pitting lesions and some dermal ridges.

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[MooseMan]

Apeman, are these lesions the norm in a primate subjected to a constantly wet environment or do they occasionally occur?

The reason I ask is should these lesions be present in, say, a Sasquatch living in a primarily wet environment like southern British Columbia?

Also do you know if they are caused by an organism that might not be found in BC?

...thnks Moose

[Apeman]

Apeman, are these lesions the norm in a primate subjected to a constantly wet environment or do they occasionally occur?

In mountain gorillas, (the only species I've noted them in but in a VERY biased sampling) they seem to be associated with extra wet times and conditions and have some individual variation, but are never constant as far as I've seen. They also seem more common on young individuals (softer, thinner skin?)

The reason I ask is should these lesions be present in, say, a Sasquatch living in a primarily wet environment like southern British Columbia?

I obviously can't answer that but the reason I've thrown this out is that it would be something else to look for in tracks and casts.

Also do you know if they are caused by an organism that might not be found in BC?

There isn't any reason to think they are caused by any infectious agent, though that is possible I suppose. They are a little like some fungal lesions associated with 'Athlete's foot,' but part of the etiology in those infections is usually wet conditions that harbor the fungus- at least that's my best understanding. I suppose if there was a fungal association it would likely be a local variety... but fungus like these are usually pretty cosmopolitan, at least to the wider taxonomic levels (e.g. genus) so would likely have 'cousins' elsewhere in the world. Sorry for thinking out loud, but I guess the final answer is that I'm not really sure but you've given me another interesting research question- THANKS!

Apeman

PS- I'm going to try to always post an image in this thread to try to keep it from having too much discussion so here is the heal from a dead silverback. The epidermis has sloughed off in a few places and you can see the dermal ridges both where epidermis remains and on the underlying dermis.

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[Melissa]

I started a thread for questions Here

I did post a question Apeman Thank you for sharing your knowledge of these wonderful animals

[Apeman]

I finally have a better way to connect to the internet without paying ridiculous per minute costs so can hopefully add to this thread more regularly (as well as participate more in the rest of the forum.)

I posted these already in the dermal ridge and artifacts thread, but will add them here too for future reference.
First is the bottom of the L foot of an adult male gorilla. Second is a lateral view of the same foot showing the change in the flow of the dermal ridge pattern as you wrap around the foot. The white numbers are corresponding folds or creases or joint in the toe/foot for orientation, the green and red arrows mark a couple defects (for orientation and to prove that it is the same foot), the yellow and purple arrows show the direction of ridge flow. There is a close up of the lateral edge pattern in the lower right corner of the lateral view.


This post has been edited by Apeman: May 19 2006, 07:36 AM

[Apeman]

Six months without activity...sorry for my lameness.

I've intended to write something of a tutorial relating to syndactyly (fused digits) and my thoughts on the possibility of there being 4 (or 3!) toed bigfeet (I think all such cases are hoaxes), but I don't see it happening any time soon. So for now, here is a shot of severe syndactyly in a mountain gorilla. Shown are toes 2-5 (big toe off to left) of the right foot of an adult male mountain gorilla. You can see that toes 3 (nail lifted) and 4 are fused to nearly the tip.

[mike2k1]

Apeman, I wanted to Pin this topic so that it isn\'t burried in forum archives....great info and please keep it coming.

Mike

[RobUstes]

If i remember correctly, i obtained these from DDA.

and this one

and

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[urbanshaman]

Here is a link to a site that shows the weight distribution of an upright walking Ape vs. the distribution of human. You might have to cut and paste it to your browser


www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/tryit/evolution/footprints.html

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[Daniel1227]

I've posted various gorilla and other primate foot images in relevant threads over the past couple years but since they are not always easy to find I thought I'd start a sort of reference thread to catolog these and other images. Since purported bigfoot tracks and casts are such an important element of this field, a reference on real primate feet seems to me to be a pretty worthwhile topic.

I am obviously not the exclusive proprietor of primate foot images so please feel free to contribute anything you think is worthwhile. I have regular access to a number of primates that I can photograph and sometimes manipulate as well as a huge archive of my own images so please feel free to make requests or suggest images. I'm short on time at the moment and have relatively poor internet access so I expect my own contributions to this thread to be slow but hopefully regular.

I would like to suggest that most discussion and analysis and comparison of images in this thread be taken elsewhere so this thread can mostly serve as a concise reference rather than a lot of dialog. I would also like to suggest to the administrators, moderators and Bipto that they consider a new area of the forum for reference material. We all use and manipulate lots of images regularly here so that is mostly what I'm thinking about, but easy to find and well organized references on things like instructions on casting tracks, handling samples, etc might also be useful. But I'm mostly thinking of things like a thread with all of the specific PGF frames, a thread of images of well known tracks or casts, etc.

Feel free to move this thread to a more appropriate place as well.

First image, which I just posted in Tube's thread, is the bottom of an adult male mountain gorilla.

Second image is a close-up of the top of the previous image hoping to better show dermatoglyphs. Note: I will usually post images in grayscale to save file space and often manipulate the contrast and tonal elements for effect, but otherwise don't change them.

[Edit- Is there some new mechanism in the forum that prevents the same member from making sequential posts and instead combines them? That will make this thread difficult....]

Hmm they have a resiblence to ape feet. I think the only MAIN difference is that they are a bit larger from an ape's feet. Thoguht they do look like human feet, once again way to long though, hmm.. I will wikipedia the average size of feet. Lets see the results.