What I Like About You (patty), You really know how to dance Options

[Lyndon]

Great overhead pics of the film site Giganto. Thanks for those.

[soarwing]

RP:
We got to get our stories straight on this one, Bob.

BG:
You mean whether we're going to tell the experts the creature walked up that road?

RP:
No you idiot! - - I mean what we're going to tell our wives. We've been gone for weeks and we're gonna show the world this film of a naked, wild woman. Pat's not the jealous type, but - -

BG:
C'mon Roger, get real. She knows this thing is just Heronimous dressed in bigfoot drag.... doesn't she?

RP:
Haven't said a word to her about it, but she found some long brown hairs hangin' off my cowboy hat and let's just say..... it ain't her color.

BG:
At least it wasn't lipstick, har har.

RP:
Put a sock in it Bob, she's gettin' a little suspicious of my so called "bigfoot hunts". She starting to think I'm courtin' some pretty young California girl, I'm tellin' ya. But little does she know that I'm really down here masterminding the hoax of the century!

BG:
Okay Rog, just relax and let's get back to whether we call this here path a "draw" a "road" or we could settle on a "pass".

RP: What difference does it make?!

BG: You know as well as I do that a bunch of smart ass, college boys are gonna be goin' over our story with a fine toothed comb, don't you? We need to get this right.

RP:
It's Patricia that I'm worrid about. She's gonna be tearing my clothes and my Cadillac apart looking for more hairs from that stinkin' suit. She finds one more and I'm gounded, ya know what I'm sayin'?

BG:
Well, normally I'd think she was crazy for being jealous, but I gotta tell you Roger, we've been down in this area for quite a while and all that messin' with the breasts on that suit has made me a little "anxious", if you know what I mean. Maybe we should head into town.... I know a fella who employs some "entertainin' gals" and - -

RP:
That's it Bob, I'm gettin' sick of all your talking about the ladies. We've got a story to get straight! "Road", "pass", "draw" - - WHATEVER! We'll say she went up over there. We'll make some fake tracks and then we'll call for the dogs.

BG:
That fella I know never gave me his number, Roger.

RP:
You idiot, I'm talking about the TRACKING DOGS!

BG:
Oh great Roger, more hair that needs explainin'.

This post has been edited by soarwing: Nov 20 2005, 09:19 AM

[Jim Zenor]

That hits pretty close to home soarwing. My wife has begun telling her friends that I am seeing another woman on the internet and her name is Patty. :doh:

I previously thought that Patty was filmed between a bridge that crossed Bluff Creek and Notice Creek which is apparently a couple miles south of there but I was mistaken (or my reference was) assuming Gigantofooticus has the correct spot. I do remember that location though. By coincidence, we camped unknowingly very near to that location where Gigantofooticus shows. I was surprised to find out that the road (13NO1) followed Bluff Creek for a while. I think the steepness of the terrain and the trees hid Bluff Creek from our view. The way I remember it, I don't think anybody would have seen Patterson and Gimlin from the road.

[Lyndon]

The way I remember it, I don't think anybody would have seen Patterson and Gimlin from the road.

What about 'hearing' them from the road? Would that be possible? If they were hoaxing it they must have been shouting out things to the actor at various points, plus talking amongst themselves. Sounds cary a long way.

[Jim Zenor]

Lyndon asked:

What about 'hearing' them from the road? Would that be possible? If they were hoaxing it they must have been shouting out things to the actor at various points, plus talking amongst themselves. Sounds cary a long way.

I don't think it likely that they were hoaxing. I have no doubt that their voices would carry very far if they were shouting or even talking at least most of the time when its quiet. That being said, in my opinion, if you broke your leg at the Patty film site and screamed for help for two weeks, assuming you could scream that long, your chances of having someone hear you would be very remote because practically noone is likely to be there to hear in my opinion. Anyway, that was how it was the times I visited the area.

[Gigantofootecus]

That hits pretty close to home soarwing.  My wife has begun telling her friends that I am seeing another woman on the internet and her name is Patty.  :doh: 

I previously thought that Patty was filmed between a bridge that crossed Bluff Creek and Notice Creek which is apparently a couple miles south of there but  I was mistaken (or my reference was) assuming Gigantofooticus has the correct spot.  I do remember that location though.  By coincidence, we camped unknowingly very near to that location where Gigantofooticus shows.  I was surprised to find out that the road (13NO1) followed Bluff Creek for a while.  I think the steepness of the terrain and the trees hid Bluff Creek from our view.  The way I remember it, I don't think anybody would have seen Patterson and Gimlin from the road.

Jim, I noticed there was a slight difference with the GPS coords for the PGF site that you (or Bob?) quoted on another thread. Can't really say that this is the exact site except that, Todd Neiss supposedly identified the big Douglas fir seen in frame 352. If correct, these coords should be accurate to within 20 yards. Here's a link to the article "Bluff Creek Revisited" by Todd Neiss. For some reason this version doesn't include the GPS coords.

Bluff Creek Revisited

GPS Coords:

Patterson Site N41*26.301' W123*42.357 Elevation 2560'-72'

Louse Camp N41*24.194 W123*43.986

[Dfoot]

Hmmm... I drove out to the location in October of 1987 in a front wheel drive small car too. It wasn't so rough back then I suppose. Just a dirt road to me. Though Todd describes the "sacred site" of the film as rarely showing a blue sky in Oct. I didn't find that to be true at all. For some reason I was lucky enough to have lots of blue sky in the days I was around Bluff Creek.

But speaking of the film locale and being lucky...

... I was wondering about the footage of Roger making casts at Bluff Creek after the creature walked. I couldn't help but note the difference in the foliage background. Even the tracks seem to be different. You don't suppose he actually made the two films during different months do you? The Patty footage background looks a lot more like John Green's than the footage of Roger at work (which should have been immediately after the filming of Patty just before the rain storm hit).

At least we can always look at the date on the original footage of Roger. Since that was a different roll altogether there is little chance that it could mysteriously go missing too. Right? I mean... it is available to be looked at... right? No?

Huh... that's odd.

Too bad for us once again. :doh: They sure don't make it easy to study this sacred film.

What's the excuse for the differences shown (or for another missing original film)? I'm sure a story has been told about this before and a good answer given to satisfy all.

- Dfoot

This post has been edited by Dfoot: Nov 23 2005, 12:28 PM

[Jim Zenor]

Jim, I noticed there was a slight difference with the GPS coords for the PGF site that you (or Bob?) quoted on another thread. Can't really say that this is the exact site except that, Todd Neiss supposedly identified the big Douglas fir seen in frame 352. If correct, these coords should be accurate to within 20 yards. Here's a link to the article "Bluff Creek Revisited" by Todd Neiss. For some reason this version doesn't include the GPS coords.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reference I used to find the Patty film site many years ago was in error as they were using that bridge on Bluff Creek as a reference and when they meant (or I mistakenly used) north when they said south or vice versa, it would put it in about the right spot. When we were there, it was never that big of deal for us to find the exact spot. When I first downloaded Google Earth a few months ago I showed Bob where we had our encounter, where something humungous walked up on us at night after Bob woke up screaming like a banchee as he was nearly eaten by a killer mouse (just kidding). Seriously, a mouse climbed into his sleeping bag and bit him in the middle of the night shortly after which we were approached. I think since I drove, I remembered the route a little more clearly. Anyway, we didn't want to camp by the creek so we went up the mountain and go figure, we camped very close to where the Patty film was made. That is why I remember that spot so well. To tell the truth, it blew me away first to find out a few months ago that our encounter was so close to Bluff Creek when our intention was to move up the mountain away from the creek and second to find out that it may have actually been real close to the actual Patty film site. To me, it is a strange coincidence and I was reluctant to relate it in the previous post because I wasn't sure it was believable.

[Lyndon]

Lyndon asked:

I don't think it likely that they were hoaxing. I have no doubt that their voices would carry very far if they were shouting or even talking at least most of the time when its quiet. That being said, in my opinion, if you broke your leg at the Patty film site and screamed for help for two weeks, assuming you could scream that long, your chances of having someone hear you would be very remote because practically noone is likely to be there to hear in my opinion. Anyway, that was how it was the times I visited the area.

Jim,

In your opinion would you say that area sees less or more human activity now than it did back in the 1950s/60s (baring in mind there was a lot of road building activity around back in those days)? Also, have the nearest towns grown to any great degree these past 40 years or have they remained pretty much the same?

Cheers!

[LAL]

There WAS a road within "sight" of the "site" at the time of the filming. It was not Route 66, but it was a cleared road that a 4x4 would be able to negotiate.

Roger's comment about the "Bluff Creek access..." can be, and has been taken out of context in the sense that there WERE other roads that were cleared and passable. One of them was within sight of where the filming took place....

I first got the impression that there was a road within sight of the filming location from "The Search for Bigfoot (Monster, Myth or Man?)", by Peter Byrne.

<snip>


That appears to be very clear to me. The Bluff Creek access road simply didn't go back that far then. As an avid and experienced ATV and ORV operator, I concede that there may have been a trail that the most adventurous may have run 4x4 on, but it certainly appears that it wasn't "a road".

Could there have been hunters using that trail? Sure. Twenty miles beyond the end of the access road? I doubt it.

Even here in Alaska, with ATVs and swamp buggies galore and in wide use, twenty miles is a good, hard run. That's back there in the Bush, folks. The farther you go, the more "hunters" you leave behind.

However, I must wonder why (if it was a hoax) they would go back that far to perpetrate it when 5 miles beyond the end of the road would serve the same purpose.

I can understand why a sasquatch might be back there. The farther back you are, the fewer humans will interupt your foraging in the stream.

Bob Titmus' map showed an "Old Road Parallelling Creek", as Roger Knights mentioned, right along the creek. It was actually a logging road that was built and in use for current operations (Murphy, Meet the Sasquatch, pg. 42).

I've never known a hunter who didn't use skid roads.

This post has been edited by LAL: Nov 24 2005, 10:15 AM

[LAL]

RP:
We got to get our stories straight on this one, Bob.

BG:
You mean whether we're going to tell the experts the creature walked up that road?

RP:
No you idiot! - - I mean what we're going to tell our wives. We've been gone for weeks and we're gonna show the world this film of a naked, wild woman. Pat's not the jealous type, but - -

BG:
C'mon Roger, get real. She knows this thing is just Heronimous dressed in bigfoot drag.... doesn't she?

RP:
Haven't said a word to her about it, but she found some long brown hairs hangin' off my cowboy hat and let's just say..... it ain't her color.

BG:
At least it wasn't lipstick, har har.

RP:
Put a sock in it Bob, she's gettin' a little suspicious of my so called "bigfoot hunts". She starting to think I'm courtin' some pretty young California girl, I'm tellin' ya. But little does she know that I'm really down here masterminding the hoax of the century!

BG:
Okay Rog, just relax and let's get back to whether we call this here path a "draw" a "road" or we could settle on a "pass".

RP: What difference does it make?!

BG: You know as well as I do that a bunch of smart ass, college boys are gonna be goin' over our story with a fine toothed comb, don't you? We need to get this right.

RP:
It's Patricia that I'm worrid about. She's gonna be tearing my clothes and my Cadillac apart looking for more hairs from that stinkin' suit. She finds one more and I'm gounded, ya know what I'm sayin'?

BG:
Well, normally I'd think she was crazy for being jealous, but I gotta tell you Roger, we've been down in this area for quite a while and all that messin' with the breasts on that suit has made me a little "anxious", if you know what I mean. Maybe we should head into town.... I know a fella who employs some "entertainin' gals" and - -

RP:
That's it Bob, I'm gettin' sick of all your talking about the ladies. We've got a story to get straight! "Road", "pass", "draw" - - WHATEVER! We'll say she went up over there. We'll make some fake tracks and then we'll call for the dogs.

BG:
That fella I know never gave me his number, Roger.

RP:
You idiot, I'm talking about the TRACKING DOGS!

BG:
Oh great Roger, more hair that needs explainin'.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Actually, according to De Atley in Long's book, P & G did spend time in bars womanizing (without De Atley). That proves it was all a hoax, no doubt.

[Jim Zenor]

In your opinion would you say that area sees less or more human activity now than it did back in the 1950s/60s (baring in mind there was a lot of road building activity around back in those days)? Also, have the nearest towns grown to any great degree these past 40 years or have they remained pretty much the same?

Lyndon, it seems pretty much the same last I was there which was probably 5 years ago as the first time which was probably over 20 years ago. I think it was probably pretty much the same since most of the roads were built in the 50s. There are practically no houses but a few are up by the main road, in Orleans and Weitchpec, and the Hoopa reservation is not too far. I suspect that since it was the Patty film site, there are some people that come there just to see the site but I never encountered them. On the several times we have been up there, we might have seen on average one other vehicle per trip and once a family was camping down by Notice Creek. Its a vast wilderness with few roads and if you get off the road, your chances of encountering another person are about zero.

[Gigantofootecus]

Jim, I noticed there was a slight difference with the GPS coords for the PGF site that you (or Bob?) quoted on another thread. Can't really say that this is the exact site except that, Todd Neiss supposedly identified the big Douglas fir seen in frame 352. If correct, these coords should be accurate to within 20 yards. Here's a link to the article "Bluff Creek Revisited" by Todd Neiss. For some reason this version doesn't include the GPS coords.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reference I used to find the Patty film site many years ago was in error as they were using that bridge on Bluff Creek as a reference and when they meant (or I mistakenly used) north when they said south or vice versa, it would put it in about the right spot. When we were there, it was never that big of deal for us to find the exact spot. When I first downloaded Google Earth a few months ago I showed Bob where we had our encounter, where something humungous walked up on us at night after Bob woke up screaming like a banchee as he was nearly eaten by a killer mouse (just kidding). Seriously, a mouse climbed into his sleeping bag and bit him in the middle of the night shortly after which we were approached. I think since I drove, I remembered the route a little more clearly. Anyway, we didn't want to camp by the creek so we went up the mountain and go figure, we camped very close to where the Patty film was made. That is why I remember that spot so well. To tell the truth, it blew me away first to find out a few months ago that our encounter was so close to Bluff Creek when our intention was to move up the mountain away from the creek and second to find out that it may have actually been real close to the actual Patty film site. To me, it is a strange coincidence and I was reluctant to relate it in the previous post because I wasn't sure it was believable.

Wow, that's incredible that your encounter was coincidentally at the "alleged" PGF site. That's hilarious about Bob getting bit by a mouse in the middle of the...night. Wonder if it was one of Patty's descendants that approached you that night? Have you ever posted the details of your & Bob's encounter?

[Lyndon]

Cheers for the info Jim. Interesting. Thanks.

I also didn't know you had an encounter in that location. Amazing.

[BobZenor]

Wow, that's incredible that your encounter was coincidentally at the "alleged" PGF site. That's hilarious about Bob getting bit by a mouse in the middle of the...night. Wonder if it was one of Patty's descendants that approached you that night? Have you ever posted the details of your & Bob's encounter?

I know it sounds funny but that mouse bit hard. He got me on the sensitive tip of the finger and drew blood and it was surprisingly painful. The reported range is not quite to where we were but I am pretty sure it was a predatory grasshopper mouse that bit me. He must have thought my finger was another mouse. I posted our encounter in the Whats your not sure encounter thread.

[Jim Zenor]

About the only thing that differs from our memory of the event was how long we waited. I think we didn't just hear it and skedaddle. I heard this thing coming up the dark trail, getting louder and louder. It seemed it must be right on us where we should see it even in the very dark night. Still it got louder and closer until I couldn't stand it anymore. The ground getting crushed under its feet was very unnerving. I practically grew up in the woods and was a sergeant in the infantry and nothing ever scared me like that. I do regret not waiting longer but I just couldn't at the time. I do suspect it was related to Patty (assuming it was a BF) and I wonder if it might have been the old girl herself. It seems pretty strange that she (or possible relative) was at the same place 20 years later.

[Lyndon]

Cheers Bob and Jim.

I don't recal reading about that in the thread before. Interesting. I don't know what I would have done, probably the same (unless I'd had a few beers beforehand ).

Just out of interest, did you mange to pack up all your camp gear or did you just leave it and take flight in the car straight away?

[BobZenor]

It would take a very large bear to leave the pile we saw earlier even though it didn't look like a normal bear dropping. Later we stopped the vehicle at a very wide spot on the road. I heard a sound that I thought was an elk or deer bolting. I rushed to the edge and fully expected to see something running maybe 100 meters below but there was nothing, no movement, no dust, no sound, only the smell of body odor or a skunk. It is hard to explain why, but those things made me very uneasy so we headed up the side of the mountain to find a remote spot to sleep.

Cheers Bob and Jim.

I don't recal reading about that in the thread before. Interesting. I don't know what I would have done, probably the same (unless I'd had a few beers beforehand ).

Just out of interest, did you mange to pack up all your camp gear or did you just leave it and take flight in the car straight away?

I am sure I made the suggestion that we leave our shoes and cloths on because I was still bothered. All we had out were sleeping bags and probably pillows. We just had to throw them in the back and drive.

[WillinYC]

Lyndon asked:

I don't think it likely that they were hoaxing.  I have no doubt that their voices would carry very far if they were shouting or even talking at least most of the time when its quiet.  That being said, in my opinion, if you broke your leg at the Patty film site and screamed for help for two weeks, assuming you could scream that long, your chances of having someone hear you would be very remote because practically noone is likely to be there to hear in my opinion.  Anyway, that was how it was the times I visited the area.

Jim,

In your opinion would you say that area sees less or more human activity now than it did back in the 1950s/60s (baring in mind there was a lot of road building activity around back in those days)? Also, have the nearest towns grown to any great degree these past 40 years or have they remained pretty much the same?

Cheers!

Lyndon,

I think there were definitely more people venturing into the Bluff Creek Area on a daily basis back in 1967 than there is today simply because there were people working in it. As has been stated, it's pretty rare to encounter anyone back there now.

As far as population trends go, from what I've gathered:

The 1964 flood event caused an outflux of population along the Klamath from the ecconomic hardship associated with the flood and a lot of those communities were isolated when the bridges washed out.

The communities started growing again a few years after access was restored, and because there was a lot of jobs in the area associated with the logging industry.

In the 1980's the populations began to decline as people left the area due to the lack of work, as logging ground to a halt, a result of the spotted owl protection. It was actually sad to see businesses that had been there for decades in Hoopa and Willow Creek go under in the 1990's. It didn't help that the regs for the take of Chinook Salmon got rather convoluted in the 1990's and that resulted in less destination fisherman to support those businesses. Some of those towns higher up on the Klamath really died after the logging industry became a bust. It wouldn't actually shock me that in terms of raw population numbers, the population in the area from say 1970, was pretty close to what it is today.

[soarwing]

Lyndon asked:

I don't think it likely that they were hoaxing.   I have no doubt that their voices would carry very far if they were shouting or even talking at least most of the time when its quiet.  That being said, in my opinion, if you broke your leg at the Patty film site and screamed for help for two weeks, assuming you could scream that long, your chances of having someone hear you would be very remote because practically noone is likely to be there to hear in my opinion.  Anyway, that was how it was the times I visited the area.

Jim,

In your opinion would you say that area sees less or more human activity now than it did back in the 1950s/60s (baring in mind there was a lot of road building activity around back in those days)? Also, have the nearest towns grown to any great degree these past 40 years or have they remained pretty much the same?

Cheers!

Lyndon,

I think there were definitely more people venturing into the Bluff Creek Area on a daily basis back in 1967 than there is today simply because there were people working in it. As has been stated, it's pretty rare to encounter anyone back there now.

As far as population trends go, from what I've gathered:

The 1964 flood event caused an outflux of population along the Klamath from the ecconomic hardship associated with the flood and a lot of those communities were isolated when the bridges washed out.

The communities started growing again a few years after access was restored, and because there was a lot of jobs in the area associated with the logging industry.

In the 1980's the populations began to decline as people left the area due to the lack of work, as logging ground to a halt, a result of the spotted owl protection. It was actually sad to see businesses that had been there for decades in Hoopa and Willow Creek go under in the 1990's. It didn't help that the regs for the take of Chinook Salmon got rather convoluted in the 1990's and that resulted in less destination fisherman to support those businesses. Some of those towns higher up on the Klamath really died after the logging industry became a bust. It wouldn't actually shock me that in terms of raw population numbers, the population in the area from say 1970, was pretty close to what it is today.

WillinYC,

Excellent post!!!! Great info and thought provoking.

[Lyndon]

Yes, thanks WillinYC.

I was guessing it was something along those lines, especially with all the activity that was going on back in the old days. Sounds like that whole area is one place that hasn't been runed by a human population growth, even by a small way. Good to hear.