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> dermal ridges and casting artifacts
tube
post May 31 2005, 10:32 AM
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I'm starting this thread as a follow up for those people who have questions or want to discuss the information I presented at Jason Valenti's Bellingham conference. For those who were not there I'll try to post some photos so that everyone can see what we are talking about.

I have been doing casting tests for several months and I have waited until now to post results publicly. I was hoping that Jimmy Chilcutt was going to attend the conference but unfortunately he did not make it. The primary peer reveiw of my materials was from Jeff Meldrum and Owen Caddy with whom I privately showed my casts. I showed photographs of my test casts and methods to everyone in attendance and put my test casts out for examination. Rick Noll is quite familiar with this line of inquiry as he has been documenting the testing with still photographs and video. I sent Jimmy Chilcutt a number of small test "coupons" some time ago but I have made further discoveries since that time. The test casts I sent Mr. Chilcutt are not completly representative of everything I have discovered.

First off, I need to give credit where credit is due. I cannot claim that I discovered the casting artifact process as I learned from Dr. Meldrum that he had seen ridges spontainously develop on test casts some years ago for which he had no solid explanation. He may have discovered this process. I believe Rick Noll was familiar with this process when I showed him my first test cast. I did not pursue "what he knew and when he knew it". In the professional casting world, of which Rick is a part, these kind of ridges would be seen as a mistake or an example of poor casting technique and actions would be taken to avoid them. As far as can tell I am the first person to pursue researching this phenomenon, at least as far as it concerns the understanding of surface features seen on Sasquatch footprint casts.

In a nutshell for those who were not in Bellingham this weekend I have found that under certain conditions cement casts can spontainously develop surface ridges that have a strong resemblance to what are being claimed as dermal ridges, at least on one cast known as the "Onion Mountain" cast made by John Green in August of 1967. Numerous pieces of evidence come together to suggest that the ridges seen on Green's Onion Mountain cast are ridge artifacts and not an accurate representation of dermal ridges pressed into the soil by a primate foot.

Just so we do not get off on the "wrong foot" let me be clear about the scope of these investigations. I am not "debunking" the claims made about all casts that are claimed to have dermal ridges. My scope of investigation has been limited to ONE cast which was made under rather extrordinary conditions. Various other casts such as Paul Freeman's "Wrinkle Foot" or the Elkins cast made in Georgia were made in mud. My tests suggest that this ridge artifact process does not occur in mud. Various other casts are claimed to exhibit dermal ridges. Of those I have no first hand knowledge or opinion, as I have not seen the casts nor do I have any knowledge of the soil conditions under which they were made.

I will be giving the same presentation and cast exhibition at the Seattle Museum of the Mysteries Sasquatch conferance this coming Sunday at the Seattle Center. John Green is scheduled to be there and I hope to verify the information I have gathered second hand about his 1967 track find.
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tube   dermal ridges and casting artifacts   May 31 2005, 10:32 AM
LAL   Thank you. Can you post a photo of this cast, or c...   May 31 2005, 11:07 AM
tube   OK, just so we are all on the same page here this ...   May 31 2005, 05:13 PM
tube   This is another photo of Green's Onion Mountai...   May 31 2005, 05:21 PM
David Thomas King   Can you explain how these surface ridges develop...   May 31 2005, 05:33 PM
tube   The chisel pointed melamine chopstick is pointing ...   May 31 2005, 05:41 PM
Yetifan   Nice work tube.   May 31 2005, 05:55 PM
tube   Very few Sasquatch footprint casts contain feature...   May 31 2005, 05:57 PM
tube   First I built an impressioning tool. This is a pho...   May 31 2005, 06:09 PM
WillinYC   Thanks for taking the time to start this interesti...   May 31 2005, 06:09 PM
tube   This is the top of the first test that I did using...   May 31 2005, 06:16 PM
tube   This is the surface of that cast in contact with c...   May 31 2005, 06:24 PM
David Thomas King   Very interesting. Do you have any more photos co...   May 31 2005, 06:27 PM
tube   Now a close up of ridge artifacts adjacent to a ma...   May 31 2005, 06:27 PM
Yetifan   Wow...all I can say is that what I assumed were de...   May 31 2005, 06:36 PM
tube   Sometimes ridge artifacts get big. This is a recen...   May 31 2005, 06:42 PM
David Thomas King   Incredible. Looks just like dermal ridges. A pictu...   May 31 2005, 06:43 PM
tube   More ridge artifacts on the same plaster of Paris ...   May 31 2005, 06:47 PM
tube   Comparison of ridge artifacts seen on plaster of P...   May 31 2005, 06:52 PM
mike2k1   Great work Tube.   May 31 2005, 06:52 PM
tube   Another veiw of plaster of Paris test cast compare...   May 31 2005, 06:56 PM
tube   Fly ash and volcanic ash are not natural soils. Ca...   May 31 2005, 07:17 PM
Apeman   ( I usually try to refrain from editorializing but...   Jun 1 2005, 12:08 AM
RogerKni   Perhaps Ray Crowe would publish a special issue of...   Jun 1 2005, 04:57 AM
RogerKni   An even better place for Matt's work would be ...   Jun 1 2005, 10:01 AM
tube   My girlfriend Dana used to edit Greenwell's Cr...   Jun 1 2005, 10:57 AM
Wildman   One of the most impressive threads I have ever see...   Jun 1 2005, 12:06 PM
GrandCherokee   Didn't I tell you this guy was hot?? :thumbsup...   Jun 1 2005, 12:22 PM
Yetifan   Wildman wrote: I'd like to second that.......   Jun 1 2005, 01:01 PM
Wildman   It was too bad Chilcutt wasn't there to discus...   Jun 1 2005, 01:29 PM
cut4sign   I can see why Chilcutt didn't make it. He was...   Jun 1 2005, 02:05 PM
David Thomas King   Tube, Do you know if there have been any cases wh...   Jun 1 2005, 03:13 PM
tube   Mr. King; Very good question. Part of my ear...   Jun 1 2005, 05:44 PM
David Thomas King   Thank you for your thorough answer to my question....   Jun 1 2005, 06:05 PM
Wildman   I have an extremely limited knowledge of dermal r...   Jun 1 2005, 06:28 PM
Yetifan   Wildman wrote: Hopefully, Chilcutt will direct...   Jun 1 2005, 06:31 PM
Arm Chair Squatcherback   Great work, tube! It will take me awhile to d...   Jun 1 2005, 07:37 PM
David Thomas King   Couldn't agree with you more Wildman. DTK   Jun 1 2005, 07:37 PM
Bitter Monk   Bravo Zulu Matt. Well worth the wait, and an exce...   Jun 1 2005, 10:30 PM
Apeman   Before we pile too much on Chilcutt, is there any ...   Jun 1 2005, 11:10 PM
Allen Foster   After this, everyone who finds a track with dermal...   Jun 1 2005, 11:17 PM
tube   Mr Foster; I agree with you that everyone sh...   Jun 1 2005, 11:58 PM
tube   This is a photograph of a cast made after 3 light ...   Jun 2 2005, 12:04 AM
tube   Here is a close up of the same cast showing no cas...   Jun 2 2005, 12:13 AM
Jim Zenor   Since casting footprints and other things (such as...   Jun 2 2005, 12:29 AM
rockinkt   I think that the vast majority of forensic exper...   Jun 2 2005, 12:57 AM
Allen Foster   Tube, First off, you've done a great job ex...   Jun 2 2005, 01:32 AM
damndirtyape   And there you go. Nice job!   Jun 2 2005, 06:17 AM
mr. sceptical   Excellent post, absolutely one of the most informa...   Jun 2 2005, 06:28 AM
JayleeD   Thanks for this information Tube. Great job, and ...   Jun 2 2005, 06:38 AM
JRG   That is some awsome work, tube! :thumbswayup...   Jun 2 2005, 08:25 AM
tube   Good question. As far as I know Mr. Chilcut...   Jun 2 2005, 12:07 PM
tube   Good points. As with almost any process it ...   Jun 2 2005, 12:37 PM
JayleeD   One more question about the hairspray. Have you t...   Jun 2 2005, 12:56 PM
tube   I have not tried a pump spray. I'm sati...   Jun 2 2005, 01:18 PM
Wildman   I certainly don't mean to imply in any of my...   Jun 2 2005, 01:18 PM
Apeman   I think I found the first "Ooops" but I ...   Jun 2 2005, 01:25 PM
primateer   The copy of the cast that I have contains dermal r...   Jun 2 2005, 01:31 PM
tube   The Blue Creek Mountain - Onion Mountain confusion...   Jun 2 2005, 01:57 PM
Guy   Tube, why do you think mud is less prone to castin...   Jun 2 2005, 04:01 PM
tube   I believe one of the necessary conditions f...   Jun 2 2005, 04:13 PM
Arm Chair Squatcherback   Tube, another question. Is it possible to spray t...   Jun 2 2005, 04:53 PM
tube   Your guess is as good as mine. As I say, I'v...   Jun 2 2005, 05:43 PM
stanpaw   tube: It is indeed a pleasure and I might add a we...   Jun 2 2005, 06:46 PM
Jim Zenor   My point was that because casting is sometimes u...   Jun 2 2005, 08:10 PM
Wildman   I thought that was a damned cow pie! :blink: ...   Jun 2 2005, 09:50 PM
JRG   Tube... I've been sitting here thinking (coul...   Jun 7 2005, 08:20 AM
rockinkt   My point was that because casting is sometimes u...   Jun 7 2005, 02:13 PM
Erectus   With this new and, in my opinion, groundbreaking e...   Jun 27 2005, 11:33 PM
JVD   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: interesting, Erectus...   Jun 27 2005, 11:35 PM
billkirbywofb   Tube, I have a couple of questions. First, could ...   Jul 18 2005, 02:35 PM
tube   Regarding the "layered cake" effect, t...   Jul 18 2005, 03:48 PM
billkirbywofb   Thank you Tube for the prompt answers to my questi...   Jul 18 2005, 05:33 PM
Gigantofootecus   Phenomenal stuff tube! Simply amazing how ca...   Jul 19 2005, 09:32 PM
tube   Yes, this is something that Mr. Chilcutt pointed...   Jul 20 2005, 12:40 AM
Gigantofootecus   Even if they are not an exact match I believe the ...   Jul 20 2005, 12:16 PM
Saskwatcher   Yes, replication, REPLICATION ...REPLICATION ...   Jul 20 2005, 12:58 PM
MadAxe   One thing I notice in most of tube's casts is ...   Jul 21 2005, 12:11 PM
Thigmo   Just about the best thread I've seen on the BF...   Sep 4 2005, 09:25 PM
scotto   I agree, this thread is one of my favorites. Tube ...   Sep 4 2005, 09:40 PM
tube   Grover Krantz went over this a fair bit in his b...   Sep 7 2005, 04:06 PM
Dudlow   B) Stunningly informative, folks! Possibly the...   Sep 10 2005, 01:00 PM
tube   Well, this weekend I finally did what I should hav...   Sep 12 2005, 06:09 PM
damndirtyape   Matt... you might want to water down the Ultra-Cal...   Sep 12 2005, 06:42 PM
tube   Thanks for the suggestions. It could very well b...   Sep 12 2005, 06:59 PM
damndirtyape   Right... 0.001" if laying down a graduated sc...   Sep 12 2005, 07:23 PM
tube   I finally had a chance to meet Jimmy Chilcutt at C...   Oct 21 2005, 10:47 AM
Wildman   Wow. I would have thought there would have been a...   Oct 21 2005, 01:50 PM
Yetifan   Wildman wrote: I was very fortunate to have bee...   Oct 21 2005, 04:32 PM
Wildman   Well that's good to know. :)   Oct 21 2005, 04:34 PM
tube   Flat ridge peaks are quite visible in test casts t...   Oct 21 2005, 05:30 PM
Wildman   That seems like such a minor, minor detail. Espec...   Oct 21 2005, 05:36 PM
wolftrax   Not when you consider that these are the ridges,...   Oct 21 2005, 07:11 PM
Wildman   But when a dermal expert can only find one very ...   Oct 21 2005, 07:51 PM
wolftrax   Not sure if I understand...   Oct 21 2005, 08:07 PM
mike2k1   I agree...I'm not sure if I understand eithe...   Oct 21 2005, 08:12 PM
walkingcarpet   He's saying that, for the rest of us, when the...   Oct 21 2005, 08:17 PM
mike2k1   That's why they are experts... :whistle:   Oct 21 2005, 08:20 PM
wolftrax   But the studies that will continue will help all...   Oct 21 2005, 09:12 PM
walkingcarpet   I agree absolutely. Keep up the great work, tube....   Oct 21 2005, 09:14 PM
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